Has the console forum been axed?

[jvd]

Nite_hawk there is no console forum. Thus dev comment is a good place to talk about the hardware . There are good threads in there about some things.

 

[gurgi]

Ah . But that doesn't mean we can't have good discusions .

I would idealy like to see the devs post a thought about the hardware and then allow us to weigh in on it and talk about it .

This way no one can make posts to start trouble .

It doesn't seem to work that way from what I've seen of developer participation in the console forum. I'm not sure I see many developer created threads, but rather they answer questions or poke at each others answers to questions.

It's my opinion that if you try to move all this discussion to the developer forum, it just won't happen. Not only are you asking that devs start every conversation or topic, you are focusing attention, maybe even unwanted attention on everything they say. Rather than get little hints of information, it would be like asking a developer, that isn't necessarily approved to make marketing announcements for his company, to stand up and make statements about thier games, or hardware etc.

It also seems like trolls will always end up wherever good conversation ends up. So if you make the developer forum a success and it is everything you say it will be, then you will just have trolls there instead of a console forum. I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

If there isn't anywhere to talk about R500 or RSX or Hollywood, then much technical knowledge will be lost, even about PC cards.

Thing is though, there is - it just doesn't get used as much as we would have hoped for.

I don't really get this. What is the point of the console forum if we are supposed to talk about hollywood/RSX/R500 in the developers forum?

I'm not saying that one must only talk about it in the Dev forum, I'm simply saying that one can (or rather, I was under the impression that this was easily possible - it's obviously not though!)

I don't mean to sound ungrateful (I want this to work out as much as everyone!), but spreading discussion out between several forums doesn't seem like a good answer. While the amount of trolls in any one forum might decrease, so would the amount of content. Now we as users would need to surf the console forum and the developer forum to find information about the same topic.

As far as users not being able to post in the developer forum, I think that is precisely the reason why it's so dead. The intent behind it is good, but I think it's a bit unfair to developers. Right now they can enjoy speaking in the conversation as individuals. As Gurgi mentioned, asking them to initiate every single discussion in the forum is like shinning a big spotlight on them. I know I wouldn't be comfortable in that kind of a position.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Ty]

As Gurgi mentioned, asking them to initiate every single discussion in the forum is like shinning a big spotlight on them. I know I wouldn't be comfortable in that kind of a position.

Nite_Hawk

For proof of this one simply has to look at the amount of developers we actually have and out of this pool, how many of them have actually started new topics in the Console Forum versus how many of them have responded to topics created by others.

 

[BOOMEXPLODE]

I think lately the console forum has been turning into another GA forum, which isn't what it was supposed to be. If you want the GAF just go to that site!

 

[BlueTsunami]

It wan't turning into GAF out of thin air....theres a reason behind it..and I bet if you look at alot of the newer users....you may be surprised at where they orginated from.

PS: Not to knock anyone whos new..hell, i'm no senior member myself...but the ones that do just retort some frivalous comments...they know who they are.

 

[Apoc]

Honest, there is no good/easy way to give mods banning powers with this boards software...period.

It wouldn't take more than a short day for a medium capable php-coder to hack that in.

On paper maybe, in practice no. We tried over at EB and it just borks up the rest of the site, it is not as easy as ya make it out to be.

It's not so difficult to make a daily list of people that have to be banned and send them to the admin so they can ban them. It's what we did in my University forum, and it worked very well.

 

[London Geezer]

Maybe people just don't understand that maybe the "list of people to be banned" and the "new improvements to the formidable console forum" and all other things they've been requesting for months have happened and will not happened for the simple fact that Dave might just not give a damn about the console forum? And quite rightly so, if that's the case.

Just my thought.

 

[gurgi]

You wouldn't even need to hack at phpbb yourself, there are existing hacks out there.

http://www.phpbbhacks.com/download/203

 

[blakjedi]

I read and post in most other forums cause my interest is tech. Anything I can learn or glean, I will. I've been reading b3d for years but only signed up last year for the discussion in the console forum...

I'm not a dev or a tech (I do computer security MCSE type work, not graphics programming) but I build my own home theaters (2 so far) and have an affinity for the IQ in ATI cards. This site along with AVSForum and dslreports are my everyday tech fixes.

All that said, the reason why the console forum is so attractive imho is because it is the perfect mix of:

- advanced hardware,

- developer insights beyond one game (not just valve, id and crytek),

- promotion and marketing (console generation are managed by huge companies for five years while graphics cards companies focus on 9 month intervals)

- and cutting edge, evolving, graphic techniques that you never can quite squeeze out of a single generation of a graphics card.

In many ways, minus the ad hominem attacks and the fanboism, the discussion that takes place in the console forum could be considered the ultimate culmination of all things 3d.

 

[Apoc]

If the forum software is the problem I don't understand why jvd, neeyik or other is made an admin.

Let's face it, they are well known users, they will not start wreaking havoc and "break" the site, and it'd be good they could ban people. It's as easy as it seems.

 

[jvd]

If the forum software is the problem I don't understand why jvd, neeyik or other is made an admin.

Let's face it, they are well known users, they will not start wreaking havoc and "break" the site, and it'd be good they could ban people. It's as easy as it seems.

You should really ask why neeyik or sonic haven't been made admins. I'm not involved in this

 

[PC-Engine]

It's the zero tolerance policy that needs to be put into place, not the splitting. Even with one console forum with zero tolerance policy (try saying that 10 times fasat) things would be so much better, the way they used to be... u know... ages ago... when PS2 wasn't even out.

And this is exactly (well not zero-tolerance, a few warnings are good ) what I tried to argue for with Neeyik.

Doing "nothing" to the trolls (the people who start with the offensive posts) only lets them continue with their behavior because apparently, "nothing will happen to them". Witness one of the biggest trolls here who basically bragged to me that, "yes I get banned everywhere I go BUT B3D". What the heck does that tell you about that person?

And then to say that the responders to trolls are in fact the problem..wow..talk about blaming the rape victim.

I think it's time for you to just get over it. Doesn't matter what people do on other boards.

 

[Sonic]

It's up to Dave who he would make an admin, if anyone. If there is a way to ban people from the console forum then you hack the board to do it. As long as it is an easy solution and not some crazy out there thing that cripples functionality then I am all for it.

The solution right now is to no longer have the forum until another solution is come upon. It's going to take time for a decision to be made, there is no sense in causing further turmoil by keeping the forum open.

 

[ims]

Best thing ever that the console forum has been taken down. Now maybe B3D can become as great as it used to be

Ims

 

[MechanizedDeath]

More mods is fine. But without authority, then you just end up with a bunch of locked threads. But I also think the mods need to change. For reasons that afflict GAF, you have double-standards. You can't partake in mudslinging if you're gonna be an enforcer. GAF has that, but that's a forum that never made any pretenses about being neutral. It's a family over there, and you either get it or you don't. But this place has always been system-neutral, and the mods should be as well. And I think there's a large number of old-schoolers (guys from the black forum days) that would do well in moderator roles. Especially since lots of them still post/lurk, and are even-handed as well as tech-focused. There has been a subjective use of the lock and the threat so far, and some bad examples being set, which set a bad precedent. When you make it clear that stuff will fly, it will.

That said, the forum was worse than this 5 years ago. You have to admit that. There were so many flamewars that I actually stopped reading this place in favor of GAF. This place was just one flamebait post after another. Inaction is the reason the forum gets to where it does, not just the users. Like alligators growing to their environment, posters will conform to the norms. I post at OA and GAF, and I'm a different poster in each of those forums. Not that my personality is any less abrasive, just that constraints set by good modding allow more varying levels of freedom.

I admit I have a tendency to sometimes get involved in system warfare, but it's something that should never even be an issue on a tech forum like this in the first place. For the longest while, I only lurked for that very reason. I can't really add as much to a discussion with the level of know-how here...or that used to be here. But for high-level discussion, I'm fine, which is why I eventually registered in 2003. But if there's system banter going on, and I see it's suddenly become accepted, why wouldn't I partake in it a bit? I mean, this is a discussion board, right? It's hard to avoid discussion, no matter how low-brow it may be sometimes. So I think good moderation is essential, and that it requires more than just throwing more people at the job. It's about quality, not quantity. PEACE.

 

[vblh]

As someone who found this site in dec or jan while i was looking for info on X360 i have to say i'm a bit sad. I started out at thenextbox forum because at the time they had some ok info (yeah i know, but it was a start).

Someone there posted a link to this site & i was hooked. Info on all the nextgen systems that was a lot more balanced than anything else out there. Devs talking about each system, Jaws, Jawed, Acert99 & others debating if how C1 would work etc, not just fanboys on there soapbox going on about how mine is bigger! I have learned alot of things from this site, & even posted a question or two (asked this morning why 48pipes for C1 & how they would use, program them).

Now i can uderstand why the forum was removed but then again i can't. But what can i do, i'm just an ordinary person who knew next to nothing about 3d graphics but wanted to learn. So if i have questions now where can i ask them? Or should i just move along and just take everything MS, Sony, Nintendo, ATI & Niv as gold?

Reading through the last 8 pages i get the impression that some of you think that newbies are a pain. If this site is for the experts or those in the know just let me know as i don't like being anywhere i'm not wanted.

Dave thank you very much for the Xenox info, i have a hard copy which i read whenever i get a chance because i am still trying to grasp everything in it.

 

[jvd]

vblh

Its not newbies . Its trolls . Sadly 99% of the trolls are newbies from the last year or so as we've worked many of the old ones out of the system .

There are 3 forums that emptied into these forums that have caused the most problems .

That is why I think Dave will have his work cut out for him if he opens up the console forum with out stricter banning . Either by giving someone else banning rights or moving to another software base .

They will have trouble allways with the console forum but with those steps it will be less so .

 

[Geo]

Given life-cycle timing, there is absolutely no reason to consider Console a second class citizen to 3DTech right now. A year from now, sure, but not in the period we're in right now, between say E3 and next spring.

In fact, I'd go farther and say 3DTech is logically the second class citizen for that period. This is no different than any standard explanation you've ever seen from a non-biased source on Console vs PC . . . Consoles are technologically king when released. . .and slowly lose it back to PC over the following years until they look pretty pathetic just before the next gen Console pre-release heats up. Rinse, repeat.

 

[jvd]

Given life-cycle timing, there is absolutely no reason to consider Console a second class citizen to 3DTech right now. A year from now, sure, but not in the period we're in right now, between say E3 and next spring.

In fact, I'd go farther and say 3DTech is logically the second class citizen for that period. This is no different than any standard explanation you've ever seen from a non-biased source on Console vs PC . . . Consoles are technologically king when released. . .and slowly lose it back to PC over the following years until they look pretty pathetic just before the next gen Console pre-release heats up. Rinse, repeat.

That may not be true at all

This year in pcs we have

dual core cpus
cross fire with 3 gpus
ppus
dedicated sound hardware

large amounts of system ram and dedicated video ram and dedicated sound ram .

Things may be very diffrent this gen