Halo 5: Guardians [XO]

[HTupolev]

Halo 4 had some once in a while, like... between doors.

I've wondered about that.

Mainline Halo has always had every object cast 1 shadow, parallel-projected in the dominant light direction. As long as the light is baked into the lightmap, it should "cast a shadow" whenever it's dominant.

There have been exceptions in cutscene lighting (i.e. there's a very obvious shadow-casting flashlight in ODST when they find Virgil), but then Halo 4 has these weird spots in gameplay with alternate shenanigans happening, and it doesn't seem like it always makes sense.

 

[iroboto]

XD I didn't even notice. Guess it was higher up the Google search chain or something. Fixed.

GDCVault link here http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1021764/Advanced-Visual-Effects-With-DirectX ahem.


hm... I was thinking the problem was due to a (cheap) reconstruction of the view space normal from two components (implying a G-buffer of sorts), and naturally you miss out on the negatives (best guess for the moment). Or.... the self-shadowing got borked, but then you'd see the light bleeding through all of the Spartan (or something horrific).

Dunno.

Just for reference:
http://i.imgur.com/dMWrRsJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0k5XRIi.jpg

-----

On the other hand, the not-so-dense meshes in the environment might point to a tiled forward solution (more vertex shading as you mentioned).

Then again, the characters have pretty good poly counts.

:V

Oh well, too much speculation from me with nothing concrete. /bored evening

I was at the end of my rope a while ago, lol. Render programming is just a field that you either did it and understand what's going on, or you won't get it at all. Aside from 2D vectors, once we get into 3D I'm done. I get some of the G-buffer stuff, but I'm not entirely always sure what goes in there. How things are combined to create the final image, sometimes I get it, but the devil is usually in the details. When we talk Normals, for me is just a perpendicular to my vector, when I think of normals off a surface I start thinking vector fields and at that point in time my brain shuts down. But always an interesting thing to discuss. I thought about learning how to make a 3D engine, I had the books for it, but honestly (after scanning through the depth of the field) i'm finding I rather just use existing engines to build a game, leave the render stuff to the guys who really love it =P

 

[AlNom]

I've wondered about that.

Mainline Halo has always had every object cast 1 shadow, parallel-projected in the dominant light direction. As long as the light is baked into the lightmap, it should "cast a shadow" whenever it's dominant.

There have been exceptions in cutscene lighting (i.e. there's a very obvious shadow-casting flashlight in ODST when they find Virgil), but then Halo 4 has these weird spots in gameplay with alternate shenanigans happening, and it doesn't seem like it always makes sense.

Ah, true. Forgot about that, particularly on the bridge towards the control panel at the end of Covenant. I hadn't really experimented much in H4 since I only had it for about a month. .... for reasons. >_>

Wonder if that's what we're still seeing in some of the new H5 footage. There's some weird disconnect in one of the parts where Fred walks ahead of Chief on that space ship level.

edit: red - doesn't seem shadowed enough like there's too much ambient. Even though there's the dynamic light coming at kelly, her suit just seems rather out of place in that shadowed area as a whole.

orange - he's floating!

On the other hand, I wonder when this stuff was captured. I hadn't compared it to the MP Beta (kinda tough to), but maybe it's a similar issue?

Any decent comparison between the MP beta and the E3 MP lighting? My general impression was that it was fixed, at least in the Conan footage.

 

[AlNom]

I was at the end of my rope a while ago, lol. Render programming is just a field that you either did it and understand what's going on, or you won't get it at all. Aside from 2D vectors, once we get into 3D I'm done. I get some of the G-buffer stuff, but I'm not entirely always sure what goes in there. How things are combined to create the final image, sometimes I get it, but the devil is usually in the details. When we talk Normals, for me is just a perpendicular to my vector, when I think of normals off a surface I start thinking vector fields and at that point in time my brain shuts down. But always an interesting thing to discuss. I thought about learning how to make a 3D engine, I had the books for it, but honestly (after scanning through the depth of the field) i'm finding I rather just use existing engines to build a game, leave the render stuff to the guys who really love it =P

I'm mostly going off of observations from past presentations (plus questions to people who do this stuff for a living ). I'm not sure to whom it's more headache inducing - me or the person I'm asking.

I could be pretty way off, but if that infuriates the programmers enough to correct me, then the trap worked.

 

[iroboto]

Ah, true. Forgot about that, particularly on the bridge towards the control panel at the end of Covenant. I hadn't really experimented much in H4 since I only had it for about a month. .... for reasons. >_>

Wonder if that's what we're still seeing in some of the new H5 footage. There's some weird disconnect in one of the parts where Fred walks ahead of Chief on that space ship level.

edit: red - doesn't seem shadowed enough like there's too much ambient. Even though there's the dynamic light coming at kelly, her suit just seems rather out of place in that shadowed area as a whole.

orange - he's floating!

On the other hand, I wonder when this stuff was captured. I hadn't compared it to the MP Beta (kinda tough to), but maybe it's a similar issue?

Any decent comparison between the MP beta and the E3 MP lighting? My general impression was that it was fixed, at least in the Conan footage.

you're right, something is off with Kelly and Linda. Frederic is likely receiving more light than he should be, but I could be wrong, the light source seems to be coming down from the ceiling somewhere, but it doesn't explain the grunt looking the way he does - and MC is in pure darkness.
I need additional clarification on the yellow haha

 

[AlNom]

I need additional clarification on the yellow haha

 

[AlNom]

you're right, something is off with Kelly and Linda. Frederic is likely receiving more light than he should be, but I could be wrong, the light source seems to be coming down from the ceiling somewhere, but it doesn't explain the grunt looking the way he does - and MC is in pure darkness.

Yeah, seems a bit too much ambient lighting. The shadow over on the left wall is being cast from an environment light source off to the right (cropped out of the screen).

 

[iroboto]

Yeah, seems a bit too much ambient lighting. The shadow over on the left wall is being cast from an environment light source off to the right (cropped out of the screen).

I wonder if it's a materials problem with the PBR system. Like, I think we understand how materials should react with light, because those companies specifically input the values for things like wood, metal, rock, etc. But what if you are trying to generate PBR values for materials that don't exist / no company has done values yet for? Are you left with scenes that don't visually make sense?

 

[AlNom]

I wonder if it's a materials problem with the PBR system. Like, I think we understand how materials should react with light, because those companies specifically input the values for things like wood, metal, rock, etc. But what if you are trying to generate PBR values for materials that don't exist / no company has done values yet for? Are you left with scenes that don't visually make sense?

mm... well, it might have been the same bugs they had with the MP beta. The cut-scenes shown so far look much more consistent though. Could just be in-game vs cut-scene issue like previous games.

As an aside, the characters have a funny dark outline in cut-scenes with DOF. Makes it look cartoony almost (especially in motion).
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-07-10-15ktuc6.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-07-10-15leuac.png

 

[Laa-Yosh]

As an aside, the characters have a funny dark outline in cut-scenes with DOF. Makes it look cartoony almost (especially in motion).
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-07-10-15ktuc6.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-07-10-15leuac.png

That seems to be some sort of compositing error. We usually get these in offline CG when separate layers are combined together which are also processed individually (color corrections, filters etc). You just have to make sure that your math is right with the alpha channel (or matte) of the layer, otherwise you get these bleeding effects and such.
Look for premultiplied alpha if you're interested.

TLDR, I'm sure it's just a work in progress thing.

 

[AlNom]

That seems to be some sort of compositing error. We usually get these in offline CG when separate layers are combined together which are also processed individually (color corrections, filters etc). You just have to make sure that your math is right with the alpha channel (or matte) of the layer, otherwise you get these bleeding effects and such.
Look for premultiplied alpha if you're interested.

TLDR, I'm sure it's just a work in progress thing.

Fair enough. I just hope they noticed. ;p

Again, they should really put dates on these things if they know they'll be scrutinized. I know it's a given with WIP, but just pointing things out here.

edit:

Anyways, I didn't actually mind it. I showed it to a pal, and he just thought it made for a more cartoon-like appearance, although it certainly looks a bit of a mess around the hair in the brighter scene.

 

[NRP]

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2015-07-10-15ktuc6.png

When did Halsey lose an arm?

And yeah, that screenshot looks like Borderlands.

 

[AlNom]

When did Halsey lose an arm?

Palmer Crimson McEgghead shot her at the end of SpOps, and apparently the split-chin motherfuckers "hinge heads" decided to cut it off instead.

And yeah, that screenshot looks like Borderlands.

Halo Unreal Engine (HUE HUE HUE)

 

[Cyan]

Ah, true. Forgot about that, particularly on the bridge towards the control panel at the end of Covenant. I hadn't really experimented much in H4 since I only had it for about a month. .... for reasons. >_>

Wonder if that's what we're still seeing in some of the new H5 footage. There's some weird disconnect in one of the parts where Fred walks ahead of Chief on that space ship level.

edit: red - doesn't seem shadowed enough like there's too much ambient. Even though there's the dynamic light coming at kelly, her suit just seems rather out of place in that shadowed area as a whole.

orange - he's floating!

On the other hand, I wonder when this stuff was captured. I hadn't compared it to the MP Beta (kinda tough to), but maybe it's a similar issue?

Any decent comparison between the MP beta and the E3 MP lighting? My general impression was that it was fixed, at least in the Conan footage.

Can you find the resolution in those pics? Just curious...

Your knowledge is awesomeness btw

 

[HTupolev]

Can you find the resolution in those pics? Just curious...

I'm counting 1:1 on that big orange edge, it's pretty obviously 720p.

 

[Cyan]

I'm counting 1:1 on that big orange edge, it's pretty obviously 720p.

Thanks @HTupolev , you are one of those people that know a lot but don't show it. Why? whatever the resolution it's essential to keep a perfect framerate. Turn 10 are masters in that regard.

 

[AlNom]

Can you find the resolution in those pics? Just curious...

Ah... kinda hard to pin-point with certainty, but it looks like 810 height in that area. There's some funkiness with possible de-interlacing. Later on in the vid it's still 810.

Width is about Kelly's hips or something.

 

[Cyan]

Ah... kinda hard to pin-point with certainty, but it looks like 810 height in that area. There's some funkiness with possible de-interlacing.

Width is about Kelly's hips or something.

Why do you look for so specific areas? I thought resolution can be seen all over, if you know why. (but thighs, feet, etc? ) What about the findings of @HTupolev ? 810p and 720p are quite close in terms of resolution. 1440x810 is a 16:9 resolution.

 

[AlNom]

This scene is 1600x1080 as far as I can tell:



Btw, it looks like they added a couple light sources to the Light Rifle:
H4/H5


Or at least, they added it to the gun texture. The lighting on top does looks like it changes a bit. Bottom one, not so much.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I was at the end of my rope a while ago, lol. Render programming is just a field that you either did it and understand what's going on, or you won't get it at all.

That's an interesting topic...

I'm no programmer, even though I have a degree in what we could call Computer Science and I've learned all kinds of stuff like Pascal and Assembly, lots of math, even some electronics and such.

However, I think that it's quite possible to gain a good understanding of the principles of 3D rendering and its various methods without a deep knowledge of programming. The more important aspects are physics (optics in particular), math, and some overall familiarity with computing. The actual coding side is only relevant if you want to be able to make more exact assessments of resource related things... So if you're interested about this, then you should probably read stuff about general 3D graphics theory, compositing, and such.