Halo 5: Guardians [XO]

:) Why do you look for so specific areas? I thought resolution can be seen all over, if you know why. (but thighs, feet, etc? )

You need a straight line formed by a polygon edge, with a reasonable length, to be able to do the proper calculations.
 
That's an interesting topic...

I'm no programmer, even though I have a degree in what we could call Computer Science and I've learned all kinds of stuff like Pascal and Assembly, lots of math, even some electronics and such.

However, I think that it's quite possible to gain a good understanding of the principles of 3D rendering and its various methods without a deep knowledge of programming. The more important aspects are physics (optics in particular), math, and some overall familiarity with computing. The actual coding side is only relevant if you want to be able to make more exact assessments of resource related things... So if you're interested about this, then you should probably read stuff about general 3D graphics theory, compositing, and such.

I finished university with an equivalent to computer engineering and I gotta say the math kills me. I won't lie physics and math were the courses I struggled with most. I think it's an interesting field, however as a hobbyist I do feel it's sorta out of reach for me: it is likely the only one in the games industry where you would benefit from a masters or doctorate in comp sci graphics. But I'll take your advice and check it out, maybe I'll like it more than I think, but usually the math turns me off. I actually graduated with a a digital networking option, where I did tons of physics about how light should react, and I would just tune out. Granted the material was more focused on light travelling through a network, but optics are optics.

How did you know you wanted to do graphics?
 
That's an interesting topic...

I'm no programmer, even though I have a degree in what we could call Computer Science and I've learned all kinds of stuff like Pascal and Assembly, lots of math, even some electronics and such.

However, I think that it's quite possible to gain a good understanding of the principles of 3D rendering and its various methods without a deep knowledge of programming. The more important aspects are physics (optics in particular), math, and some overall familiarity with computing. The actual coding side is only relevant if you want to be able to make more exact assessments of resource related things... So if you're interested about this, then you should probably read stuff about general 3D graphics theory, compositing, and such.
Computer Science, yup, that's what I am going to study next year and hopefully I will become a guru.
 
You don't have to be able to actually do the math, it's enough to understand how it generally works, IMHO. Also, simple things like what you can do with various RGBA buffers, how the elements are combined to become parts of the rendering equation. Stuff like, lighting on a pixel is calculated from the incoming light vector and the normal vector, or compositing elements and such. You can go through the actual groundwork in school and pass your exams and forget the details, but you'll still have a grasp of how it works.
Same for the hardware - what are registers, ALUs, buses, caches etc. Specifics are relevant only if you want to be able to do calculations and compare them at the base level.

For example, on my final exam I had to talk about the Pentium Pro architecture, pipeline and similar things. I got top grades, but that was 15 years ago and I couldn't repeat it today ;) Yet I still have an overall understanding of how it worked and what mattered. Stuff we've also studied included math for spline functions, discrete logic, physics of the chips and so on. So I'm no expert but I can usually understand most of the hw related things.


As for how I knew I wanted to get into graphics, in particular CG... Funnily enough I've been invited to a podcast about two weeks ago, made by some long time friends, so I've actually retraced my steps :)

In the early `90s, 3D content creation software was finally released on PCs, 3D Studio in particular, so it finally became cheap enough for game devs to get a license and have a single guy start experimenting with it. One of the first things I've seen was the CG intro for Microprose Formula 1, but other studios followed soon and we've had pre-rendered stuff in all kinds of games. Like, Ultima VII, Wing Commander 2, Baldur's Gate and so on. I've also visited the local computer fair stuff where I've seen Silicon Graphics machines, and of course CG was starting to show up in movies like Tron or The Lawnmower Man
Now I've been fascinated with Lego and aircraft models from early childhood, so I've immediately recognized that this would be the ultimate way to build literally anything I wanted. It's actually the reason my parents suggested CS as a degree - all they've seen was that the kid was sitting in front of the computer all the time, so maybe he could make a living from it :)
Then it was a pretty straight - although bumpy - road to where I am now. The CS stuff helped a lot, although I still have some regrets for not focusing on the art side more. Then again, now I'm mostly a manager with a 10-man team, but I still try hard to do some actual work from time to time ;)
 
:) Why do you look for so specific areas? I thought resolution can be seen all over
The effects of a whole bunch of factors can be seen all over. On most regions of the screen there are too many variables and unknowns (such as texture filtering, shading, post-processing, whatever) to make confident, precise guesses at the backbuffer resolution.

Pixel counting is generally accomplished by analyzing aliases, artifacts that occur due to inadequate sampling on sharp details. Aliases are patterned by the sampling in such a way that they can reveal said sampling behaviour, the classic example being jaggies on long object edges. (Ful-res sampling gives one-pixel jaggies, 1/2-res gives 2-pixel jaggies, and so on.)

@HTupolev ? 810p and 720p are quite close in terms of resolution. 1440x810 is a 16:9 resolution.
My "720p" comment was a joke. I was pixel-counting AlNet's orange MS Paint circle.
 
That seems to be some sort of compositing error. We usually get these in offline CG when separate layers are combined together which are also processed individually (color corrections, filters etc). You just have to make sure that your math is right with the alpha channel (or matte) of the layer, otherwise you get these bleeding effects and such.
Look for premultiplied alpha if you're interested.

TLDR, I'm sure it's just a work in progress thing.
Just a follow-up, I thought I recalled reading about it:
http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2011/White, BarreBrisebois- Rendering in BF3 (Siggraph 2011 Advances in Real-Time Rendering Course).pdf Page 12 discusses the premultiply thing.
 
What do you mean? DrJay just posted it is not true with the 1080p improvement...

And with respect to PES being 720p60Hz only and thus lazy devs and so on...this is better than the current pre-alpha build performance of H5 we got which can drop below 720p.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the release game. Halo was never (an will never be) about graphics, but about action and I hope they deliver on this front.

Just that I hope I can wrap my head around the story thing and who the heck this new main character is and why I am chasing after Masterchef, and what the heck else is going on?!?!?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1082975

PES 2016 is now confirmed 1080p. This bodes well for XBO and future titles. Whatever they changed, they made the frame buffer that couldn't fit, fit - at least from the limited way people have been discussing deferred rendering topic. We'll need to wait and see the results though, but hopefully this will finally mean the end to reading forum posts about how "Commenter A has done the math and 1080p pixels don't fit into 32MB esRAM, it's impossible it'll never work". And hopefully also means the end to GamingBolts "Did you have a problem accessing esRAM???"

Anyway, if PES2016 can move from 720p->1080p in deferred rendering at 60Hz, then with enough work it may happen with H5. At least, do better than keeping 720p most of the time.
 
Last edited:
The 360 i believe for 2015 was 720 60fps with far less memory space or bandwidth.

The pixel difference is smaller than then esram / edram difference or the bandwidth difference.

They must havr had some very large g buffer to be hard limited to 720 especially as we know they where not limited to just 720 / 900 / 1080
 
First of their next developer doc series.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/halo-5-guardians-your-team-is-your-weapon
The scale of campaign experience that we are delivering with Halo 5: Guardians is far beyond any previous Halo game. With co-operative play as a focus, it has meant creating larger spaces with multiple vertical levels and intersecting pathways. Teammates are encouraged to spread out and explore, seeking advantageous positions from which to support one another.

Not only has this increased the scale of the environments themselves, but it requires a greater number of enemies to be active in any given area. Building encounters with co-op play in mind has meant an increase in the density of foes. Because players have more freedom in splitting up and exploring the environment, we can have dozens and dozens of active antagonists, all systemically-driven and reacting in real-time to the world around them. This is where the sandbox nature of Halo really shines.

The decision to remove split-screen support from Halo 5: Guardians was one of the most difficult ones we’ve ever had to make as a studio. We know that for many of our fans, Halo has meant playing together with friends in the same room. We all have great memories of past Halo split-screen multiplayer matches. To move Halo’s gameplay forward and deliver a true next-gen experience, tough choices had to be made. Our decision was driven by a desire for scale, fidelity and focus to ensure that we would deliver the best quality experience possible. With Halo 5 we are delivering massive scale environments, improved AI behavior, increased visual and gameplay fidelity… something that truly takes advantage of a new platform. Many of our ambitious goals for Halo 5 would be compromised in a split-screen setting and the time spent optimizing and addressing split-screen-specific issues would take focus from building other parts of the game. Game development is a balancing act of resources, time and technology, and in this case we made the tough decision to sacrifice something that’s been near and dear to us all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NRP
Sounds like they're tackling the suggestion that Halo 5 is less of a sandbox in the single player campaign when compared to the Bungie games.

I have no reason to feel that 343i are going make a worse game and I personally feel we should wait until the reviews before passing judgement on their creative and technical capabilities.
 
Yeah, well we'll see. It's easy to throw around buzz phrases like "campaign scale far exceeding any other Halo game", but the proof is in what they actually deliver. So far, 343i has only delivered H4, which was not exactly an expansive campaign experience. Hopefully they deliver more than merely lip service hype.
 
There's something claustrophobic about that canyon screenshot without any characters in it (probably due to the statues) although I suppose the Covenant doodads are a reference point.

I'd like to see the "dozens and dozens" of enemies.

The foliage is kinda terrible.
 
Back
Top