Gay High

[Joe DeFuria]

YEAH god forbid if ur tax raises of roughly 0.012 US dollars a year "for homosexuals" ...sigh...

Hey-london-boy.

Please buy me a new Radeon 9800 Pro. I want one. I deserve one. It's only $400 MSRP. A mere fraction of your income.

 

[horvendile]

Ugh!
I have neither the time nor the inclination to enter a long detailed discussion on this issue. A brief answer though:

Apparently I was wrong on the hate crime ranking list. I won't go into details on why I thought what I did. One thing I did miss in the FBI report though was a table based on age. It can also be noted that while there are more hate crimes against blacks than against gays, there are way more blacks than open gays. On the other hand there are not nearly as many jews. On the third hand, being jewish is visible if you are orthodox (and male?) whereas being gay is probably not. And finally, abuse per capita shouldn't be important for this question, when I think about it.
Oh well, what I said didn't really depend on that statement.

I haven't read up on all details, but broadly I think that this is a just thing to do with tax money. Some may call it social experimenting. I think it's taking basic social responsibility. I guess that after that, there's not much left to say.

I'm not saying that this is a perfect solution, it'd be better if this opportunity existed for all in need, but I think it's a solution, or first iteration thereof. Until there is no better alternative - and I mean not in theory, but ready to use - I say it's a good thing.

So there!

 

[RussSchultz]

How bout we make a state funded school for only heterosexuals? No gays allowed.

And then see how quickly opinions change.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

It can also be noted that while there are more hate crimes against blacks than against gays, there are way more blacks than open gays.

Right, upon which it can be argued that blacks are more deserving of a "special school" because they are higher in number.

I haven't read up on all details, but broadly I think that this is a just thing to do with tax money.

And that's the basic deifference between liberalism/socialism and conservatism.

I may think it's a good thing to have too...just not a just thing to do with tax money.

Some may call it social experimenting. I think it's taking basic social responsibility. I guess that after that, there's not much left to say.

The problem, imo, comes in when you have to draw lines between which "groups" (minorities) are deserving of what special treatment, and which groups are deserving of other special treatment, etc. In the end, you get rewarded for being a minority or a victim. That is poor philosophy, socially speaking, IMO. I'm for punishing the criminials.

I'm not saying that this is a perfect solution, it'd be better if this opportunity existed for all in need, but I think it's a solution, or first iteration thereof.

But it also contradicts other "social engineering" arguments like diversity. You lessen the homosexual presence in "normal" public schools, and there is less and less exposure to it by the majority, which is "bad" according to diversity pundits.

They'll argue for the right to have a "separate" school for themselves on one hand, and then argue for preferential treatment to get into a "normal" school on the other. Can't have it both ways.

Until there is no better alternative - and I mean not in theory, but ready to use - I say it's a good thing.

So there!

I want to get one thing straight. I understand the practical desire to have such a school, and I agree the "want to be in a non threatening environment" is a valid premise to want a segregated situation. I can certainly see it as a "good thing", depending on your point of view. The government should not interfere with anyone wanting to set up or create such an instiution (and the government doesn't.).

But the government should not be setting these things up themselves. The government should not be using my money to support discriminitory institutions.

If Richard Simmons wants to set up a school for "fat and gay kids", and it gets enough private support from him and anyone else such that all "fat and gay" kids can attend the school for free, and this instiution provides the best education on planet, (and I can't get in because I'm not fat and gay) so be it.

 

[covermye]

YEAH god forbid if ur tax raises of roughly 0.012 US dollars a year "for homosexuals" ...sigh...

Don't be so sarcastic. You do realize, don't you, that schools are primarily funded through LOCAL (city and county) taxes, don't you? I recently read in a local paper that in our area, our (underperforming) local schools consume nearly 70% of our local taxes.

Would you be in favor of a $.001 per person annual federal tax per person that would benefit the education of my two children? That's a noble cause, isn't it? With the mere 1/10th of a penny added onto every single US citizen's tax return and forwarded to me, that's ~$280,000. Maket it a two year temporary tax and round it off to a cool half million. Yeah. That ought to cover books, tuition, etc... etc... What's a more noble cause than helping a young motivated child become more productive for society's benefit? Besides, what's a tenth of a cent between friends? Using your logic, you should be all for it, right?

I do find it ironic that the same group of people that promote "diversity" (liberals) fully support this HUGE backwards step. It doesn't add up. Why is a $3.2 million dollar rennovation necessary to serve the needs of 100 kids who don't feel "comfortable" in a public school? I could make a rather large list up of the number of times I was made to feel "uncomfortable" in the public school I went to, mostly because my family was thought to "have it made" and financially well-of (relatively).

How bout the kid in my class that picked his nose all the time and was made fun of? Can we start a school for nose-pickers and fund it with public dollars just so they don't get made fun of? I mean, for just a few pennies per tax payer, it could all be a reality. Why should anybody get worked up over just a few bucks a year extra in taxes just to support a few dozen different schools for social outcasts?

If the few extra dollars bothers you, it's only because you're a selfish capitalist conservative looking out for his own interests, right? No other reason at all that you should be worried about $5 per year leaving your pocket book. Trying to explain this away that $.012 (or whatever it is) per citezen ought to not bother anybody is the most simple-minded excuse I've seen yet on this thread.

 

[London Geezer]

If Richard Simmons wants to set up a school for "fat and gay kids", and it gets enough private support from him and anyone else such that all "fat and gay" kids can attend the school for free, and this instiution provides the best education on planet, (and I can't get in because I'm not fat and gay) so be it.

sigh....

oh and the Radeon comment... superSIGH...

being FAT does not constitute a legitimate form of potential harrassment as signed on the Geneva Convention, which states that no man or woman can be persecuted for his/her religious beliefs, sex, sexual preferences, political involvement.
waist size is not included, sorry. oh but i forgot, america is a phantom signatory
therefore i personally see it just to have "safe" areas where those kind of people can profess their religiuos beliefs, for example, without fear of harrassment or persecution.
of course the "people" as a whole wont agree with this, simply because the gay community is such a small part of the entire population. just like with asylum seekers. they are ALWAYS the scape-goat of every problem a country can have, when in fact they are such a non-issue it's not even funny.

i think it was a brave move from whoever is responsible of this. not because i'm gay or anything, but because it goes against what the majority of people think. and we know that "people" are very close minded and selfish.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

being FAT does not constitute a legitimate form of potential harrassment as signed on the Geneva Convention,

Who give's a rat's ass about the "Geneva Convention" wrt to schools in the United States? Does the Geneve convention override the U.S. Constitution?

which states that no man or woman can be persecuted for his/her religious beliefs, sex, sexual preferences, political involvement.

Great. Then incriminate those who do persecute for those reasons.

waist size is not included, sorry.

Oh, but it SHOULD be! It's only "right!" Fat and ugly kids get unfairly picked on all the time. Ask the fat and ugly kid getting harassed every day if his issues are "legitimate" or not.

therefore i personally see it just to have "safe" areas where those kind of people can profess their religiuos beliefs, for example, without fear of harrassment or persecution.

Great....then let's set up a public school for Jews and Catholics.

of course the "people" as a whole wont agree with this, simply because the gay community is such a small part of the entire population. just like with asylum seekers. they are ALWAYS the scape-goat of every problem a country can have, when in fact they are such a non-issue it's not even funny.

This has nothing to do with anyone being a scapegoat for anything. It has to do with my tax dollars paying for discrimintory practices.

i think it was a brave move from whoever is responsible of this. not because i'm gay or anything, but because it goes against what the majority of people think. and we know that "people" are very close minded and selfish.

No, it was more like brazen because it's blatantly Unconstitutional. As I've repeated SEVERAL times...this does NOT go against what I think. I think having a "safe haven" is a perfectly valid premise for this.

That doesn't mean I should be forced to pay for it, any more than you should be forced to pay for Lutheran Public School No. 206.

 

[London Geezer]

Who give's a rat's ass about the "Geneva Convention" wrt to schools in the United States? Does the Geneve convention override the U.S. Constitution?

Great. Then incriminate those who do persecute for those reasons.

Oh, but it SHOULD be! It's only "right!" Fat and ugly kids get unfairly picked on all the time. Ask the fat and ugly kid getting harassed every day if his issues are "legitimate" or not.

Great....then let's set up a public school for Jews and Catholics.

This has nothing to do with anyone being a scapegoat for anything. It has to do with my tax dollars paying for discrimintory practices.

No, it was more like brazen because it's blatantly Unconstitutional. As I've repeated SEVERAL times...this does NOT go against what I think. I think having a "safe haven" is a perfectly valid premise for this.

That doesn't mean I should be forced to pay for it, any more than you should be forced to pay for Lutheran Public School No. 206.

I GUESS we just have diametrically different opinions on the subject, but it's nice to see what Joe Average in the USA thinks about the Human Rights Convention. i mean i shouldn't be surprised, seen how the US acts. (see: doesnt give a f**k about it)

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I GUESS we just have diametrically different opinions on the subject, but it's nice to see what Joe Average in the USA thinks about the Human Rights Convention. i mean i shouldn't be surprised, seen how the US acts. (see: doesnt give a f**k about it)

Did you read my post?

I said Then incriminate those who do persecute for those reasons. Don't REWARD VICTIMS. Punish offenders.

The U.S. Constitution outlines just about all the rights with respect to the government that need be highlighted. The GOVERNMENT has severe limitations on what it can impose on its citizens. The GOVERNMENT has no basis for treating anyone unfairly on unequally.

It's nice to know what the average non-American thinks he knows about the U.S. Constitution. F**k-all.

 

[Willmeister]

This school is a backwards step. It reinforces the idea that one group is 'special' and needs special treatment. Hardly a good poster boy for tolerance and understanding. Fragmentation of society is not a good idea.

Instead of making a separate school, with a virtual identical ciriculum I bet, why not take this extra money and crack down on all forms of harassment and bullying.

No, they have to opt for the easiest solution...

 

[Natoma]

I think the huge misconception here is that this is for gay students who have a bad word tossed their way and want out. This is not a "normal" school in the sense that any gay student can come. The students that go to this school are in real physical danger most of the time and have suffered tremendous mental and emotional abuse.

I'm not talking about "Oh you're such a faggot." I'm talking about someone screaming that at you while bashing you so badly you're lying in a pool of your own blood.

This school is a last resort for the safety of the students. Nothing more, nothing less. It has been around for almost 20 years, but was very small due to the reliance on only private funds. The public funds are what are helping it expand and reach more students who experience these problems.

I understand why some of you have issues with supporting a school like this with your tax dollars (though if you don't live in NY, you really have nothing to complain about because it's not coming out of your wallet), so I don' t have an issue with that. I do however have an issue with people who believe this school exists merely because someone got called a name and wants out.

It is far more severe than that.

 

[London Geezer]

Did you read my post?

I said Then incriminate those who do persecute for those reasons. Don't REWARD VICTIMS. Punish offenders.

The U.S. Constitution outlines just about all the rights with respect to the government that need be highlighted. The GOVERNMENT has severe limitations on what it can impose on its citizens. The GOVERNMENT has no basis for treating anyone unfairly on unequally.

It's nice to know what the average non-American thinks he knows about the U.S. Constitution. F**k-all.

how is that "rewarding the victim"? as far as i know (very little after all) they dont get free ice cream between periods, free health care, free books and all that.... it's a public school like any other public school.
if we have muslim schools and jewish schools, then why not have a "gay School"? (IT SOUNDS SO FUNNY SAID LIKE THAT )

 

[RussSchultz]

Because we don't have publicly funded muslim or jewish schools.

 

[Natoma]

Because we don't have publicly funded muslim or jewish schools.

Are you for or against School Vouchers? They are publicly funded "coupons" that allow students to attend private schools. So your hard earned tax dollars are going to allow students to not even participate in the public school system. Where's the outrage?

 

[London Geezer]

WHAT Natoma said.

end of the day these people have a right under the Geneva Convention on Human Rights to be protected.
it's not a school for guys to all have fun in the showers after PE (even though i'd love to see that J/K!!).
it's simply an extension of what has been done for years.
OF COURSE the people won't care about other people's human rights, and americans will never care about a convention that SHOULD overrule the american constitution, just like it overrules every constitution in europe and all the other civilised countries that signed for it after WW2.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Instead of making a separate school, with a virtual identical ciriculum I bet, why not take this extra money and crack down on all forms of harassment and bullying.

Precisely.

(Though now that I've agree with Willmeister, I should perhaps re-evaluate my point of view. )

 

[Joe DeFuria]

how is that "rewarding the victim"? as far as i know (very little after all) they dont get free ice cream between periods, free health care, free books and all that.... it's a public school like any other public school.

They get millions of dollars just for them. That's a bit more than ice cream...

if we have muslim schools and jewish schools, then why not have a "gay School"? (IT SOUNDS SO FUNNY SAID LIKE THAT )

Um, as I said, I have no problem with a gay school.

But we don't have PUBLICALLY FUNDED muslim and Jewish schools.

 

[London Geezer]

Instead of making a separate school, with a virtual identical ciriculum I bet, why not take this extra money and crack down on all forms of harassment and bullying.

Precisely.

(Though now that I've agree with Willmeister, I should perhaps re-evaluate my point of view. )

because it costs less to open a "safe area" than to crack down EVERY SINGLE PERSON bullying other people... gosh u people are just economically clueless... this school is the cheapest thing u're gonna get, so don't complain. if the government wanted to arrest (and support once in prison) every person guilty of bullying other people, the tax would rise of like 100000 times more than opening this little school for 170 frikking students.... jesus...

 

[Natoma]

But we don't have PUBLICALLY FUNDED muslim and Jewish schools.

I suppose I'll pose the same question to you that I posed to Russ.

Are you for or against School Vouchers? They are publicly funded "coupons" that allow students to attend private schools. So your hard earned tax dollars are going to allow students to not even participate in the public school system. Where's the outrage?

p.s.: It's publicly.

 

[RussSchultz]

Because we don't have publicly funded muslim or jewish schools.

Are you for or against School Vouchers? They are publicly funded "coupons" that allow students to attend private schools. So your hard earned tax dollars are going to allow students to not even participate in the public school system. Where's the outrage?

If the school gets its money from vouchers, I'm OK with that, assuming every child has access to the voucher program. Even if they were gay and went to a gay school, I'd be ok with that. Or jewish and went to a jewish school. Or muslim and went to a Islamic school. (All, assuming, of course, they meet the minimum requirements set forth by the state concerning performance, curriculem, etc).

However, if your Jewish school can't survive on the vouchers (and other private funding), then I don't agree with the government having special entitlement programs to prop up those schools.