Gates on Motion Enabled game pads

[Shifty Geezer]

" Even pilots actually sit in a chair when they do their flying. So there's a lot to be learned about these controllers."

No, that's absolutely true. As far back as the 1940s aerospace developments tried a number of planes when the pilot was standing on the floor using motion controls, and at the end of the day they decided it was best if they sit down and use a static stick. Which has amazing similarities to gamers sat in static living rooms not pulling 5G rolls. On this reasoning MS are releasing a new Flight-Stick controller where you have to strap into a custom 4-point harness seat after donning flight gear and a HUD and playing all games with a large stick coming up from your feet.

 

[patsu]

No wonder it's so hard to pry me away from the couch once I lay my hands on a controller. 5G .... phew.

 

[thenefariousone]

Yes they did.

1. A few reviews of the Sidewinder Freestyle said it was too sensitive, and the buttons could be better placed, but there were no complaints about the precision of the device.One of many reviews: http://www.joystickreview.com/microsoft/sidewinderfreestylepro.asp


2. Motocross Madness (http://www.microsoft.com/games/motocross2/) was specifically tailored for the controller. Microsoft actually bundled the game and the controller together. That bundle's still available on ebay for $10.

That game was a ton of fun. Where's the sequel to that?

No they didn't.

A: it wasn't a motion sensing pad, merely tilt sensing. And it wasn't well engineered either; the precision sucked said those that tested it.

B: it wasn't "a little while back", it was some time in the late half of the 90s afair.

No game was ever specifically tailored to the controller, nor is a PC in general built around a tilt (or motion) sensitive controller. The situation isn't even remotely comparable.

 

[Squeak]

No they didn't.

A: it wasn't a motion sensing pad, merely tilt sensing. And it wasn't well engineered either; the precision sucked said those that tested it.

I tried it and it was terrible. Even this very simple Lunar Lander type game on a LED(!) screen on the test pod, was very hard to control.
It had an almost digital feel to it, like it was just a switch tilting back and forth and sideways...

 

[weaksauce]

Does anyone like Rumble? It has annoyed me for years, I'm glad Sony is trying something new. I don't need a gamepad to vibrate unless it's a sex game.

It's really annoying when you get shot in Frontline and it shakes, but that's like a punishment so it's good I guess.

But it's really nice in gran turismo when you drive on those side thingys, you know those around turns and such, you can go a little bit of the road on them. That feels good. :smile:


Man that was lame. Did he want to point out that if you play a flying game and want to take a pause and put the controller down, then the plane goes down too?
I like sonys statement better, making the moves you sometimes make into actual control.
I just hope they are enough sensetive so you don't have to swing that much.

 

[Arwin]

Here's me predicting the future (not necessarily in this order)
- TGS comes
- MS develops motion-sensor controller or 360 gets third-party one, like the one eDimension has announced for PS2 (of course, this one with Rumble)

 

[scooby_dooby]

Here's me predicting the future (not necessarily in this order)
- TGS comes
- MS develops motion-sensor controller or 360 gets third-party one, like the one eDimension has announced for PS2 (of course, this one with Rumble)

lol, do you want to put some money on that?

It's funny how motion sensing has become this big thing, but if you brought it up 12 months ago, everyone would've screamed GIMMICK. Now that N did it, and Sony hopped on board, it's a must have feature?

I don't think so. Lets see what the consumers decides.

 

[Arwin]

lol, do you want to put some money on that?

It's funny how motion sensing has become this big thing, but if you brought it up 12 months ago, everyone would've screamed GIMMICK. Now that N did it, and Sony hopped on board, it's a must have feature?

I don't think so. Lets see what the consumers decides.

Of course we'll see. But you forget the amazing influence that things like airbags have had on bring the costs and precision down lately.

They're ready for the big time now, and so are the games. After seeing a game like Mercury and hearing Archer McLean about it in early PSP launch days, I was expecting it to be announced first for the PSP though. Especially after Mercury 2 was announced as Archer said he'd only really want to if he could get a tilt sensor for the PSP. And doesn't LocoRoco scream tilt*?

* disclaimer: when I talk about tilt, it does not mean that the PS3 controller doesn't detect x,y,z or accelleration. These things need to be spelt out, I know.

I've watched the PS3 videos and people playing Warhawk on the show floor in a very controlled and smooth manner, and from the looks of it, the technology has matured and has become very precise. I think TGS is long enough for developers to show how it can be used even in common games. I can't wait.

 

[expletive]

No they didn't.

A: it wasn't a motion sensing pad, merely tilt sensing. And it wasn't well engineered either; the precision sucked said those that tested it.

The difference? An additional axis of response?

B: it wasn't "a little while back", it was some time in the late half of the 90s afair..

The review pointed out was from October of 2000, The same month sony released the PS2 in NA. One gen previous, to me, is a little while back. We can agree to disagree here.

No game was ever specifically tailored to the controller, nor is a PC in general built around a tilt (or motion) sensitive controller. The situation isn't even remotely comparable.

This was already answered but how you can say the situation isnt 'remotely' comparable is a little dramatic. Clearly MS had already looked at the concept and its implementation, albeit at a time when the technology was immature. That doesnt change the fact that in all likelihood it was discussed as being part of the xbox or even the 360, and rejected.

 

[NANOTEC]

Why do people always have to put in their own 2 cents about not likeing rumble? If you don't like it then turn it off in the game menu!!! Why castrate rumble for a few whiners??? Can you attached a rumble pack if the controller wasn't even designed for thems??? Sorry superglue aint gonna cut it!!!

 

[mckmas8808]

This was already answered but how you can say the situation isnt 'remotely' comparable is a little dramatic. Clearly MS had already looked at the concept and its implementation, albeit at a time when the technology was immature. That doesnt change the fact that in all likelihood it was discussed as being part of the xbox or even the 360, and rejected.

Yeah it's as bad as people saying that Sony copied Nintendo and their remote, thinking that Sony cooked up their plan after seeing Nintendo show the Wiimote.

 

[Nesh]

To be fair he is speaking from experience somewhat as MS did put out a motion sensing gamepad a little while back. Though i agree he NEVER would have said it was a good idea.

They avoid to note the differences between their efforts and Nintendo's/Sony's efforts.

Unlike PCs, all PS3 and Wii consoles include the motion sensing controller. A PC owner had to buy a controller separately.

First: Almost everyone had no idea of motion sensing PC controllers.

Second: The ones that did, couldnt find the controllers easilly.

Third: Because of these developers hesitated to support that controller.

Forth: Because of that people that knew about it saw even less of a reason to get it.


Since anyone who will own a PS3 or Wii will also own a motion sensing controller automatically, all owners can and will all give it a try. So developers will have more reasons to use the motion sensing feature, experiment with it and expand on it. They have more reasons to be creative with the motion sensing controller than they were with PCs

 

[NANOTEC]

Yeah it's as bad as people saying that Sony copied Nintendo and their remote, thinking that Sony cooked up their plan after seeing Nintendo show the Wiimote.

Please let's not rehash those futile arguments again-->2 WEEKS!!!

 

[mckmas8808]

Please let's not rehash those futile arguments again-->2 WEEKS!!!

Hey it's the truth right?

 

[expletive]

They avoid to note the differences between their efforts and Nintendo's/Sony's efforts.

Unlike PCs, all PS3 and Wii consoles include the motion sensing controller. A PC owner had to buy a controller separately.

First: Almost everyone had no idea of motion sensing PC controllers.

Second: The ones that did, couldnt find the controllers easilly.

Third: Because of these developers hesitated to support that controller.

Forth: Because of that people that knew about it saw even less of a reason to get it.


Since anyone who will own a PS3 or Wii will also own a motion sensing controller automatically, all owners can and will all give it a try. So developers will have more reasons to use the motion sensing feature, experiment with it and expand on it. They have more reasons to be creative with the motion sensing controller than they were with PCs

I'm not saying that the PS3 control is good, bad, or otherwise. My point is that MS has the right to reject it as relevant because they did incorporate a very similar technology (and almost identical game concept) in a product at the same time the PS2 was released.

When MS was designing the original Xbox, the Sidewinder Pro was a current product for them.

I refuse believe that during the design of the xbox someone didnt say "hey how about that tilt stuff we're using in the sidewinder", only to have it rejected for any number of reasons.

Yes, Gates would have said this stuff regardless but bottom line, when you designed something very similar 6 years ago and released it, lost money on it, then dumped the concept, you get the right to downplay someone else doing it 6 years later. imo.

 

[rounin]

Yes, Gates would have said this stuff regardless but bottom line, when you designed something very similar 6 years ago and released it, lost money on it, then dumped the concept, you get the right to downplay someone else doing it 6 years later. imo.

I think they very possibly gave up too early. Just like TI giving up on transistors radios too early and letting Sony have all the fun . This will not be the first time a Japanese company has taken something, developed it further and gotten much further than someone who tried it the first time and gave up prematurely. To me, what Bill said seems to carry a lot more lamentment/sour grapes talk than usual

 

[zed]

within a year of the wii + ps3 coming out (perhaps even 6 months) the xb360 will also have a motion sensor + gates etc will explain with excuses like
we were waiting until the technology caught up so we could 'do it right first time' etc
ala the same excuses ati or nvidia (or company A vs company B) make time after time.
this bollux pisses me off, companies like ppl are not perfect + dont always make the best choices, when that happens i have more respect for someone that admits it than someone that tries to weasel out by making excuses

 

[NBK - Steve]

Does anyone like Rumble? It has annoyed me for years, I'm glad Sony is trying something new. I don't need a gamepad to vibrate unless it's a sex game.

R you kidding? I always use it. It's very useful in a lot of games, 1st person shooters especially.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I'm not saying that the PS3 control is good, bad, or otherwise. My point is that MS has the right to reject it as relevant because they did incorporate a very similar technology (and almost identical game concept) in a product at the same time the PS2 was released.

When MS was designing the original Xbox, the Sidewinder Pro was a current product for them.

I refuse believe that during the design of the xbox someone didnt say "hey how about that tilt stuff we're using in the sidewinder", only to have it rejected for any number of reasons.

Yes, Gates would have said this stuff regardless but bottom line, when you designed something very similar 6 years ago and released it, lost money on it, then dumped the concept, you get the right to downplay someone else doing it 6 years later. imo.

I'd say cost must have factored heavily against MS putting a two axis tilt controller on the xbox, as it must've been a factor in developing a 6-axis gyro controller and putting it in the xbox360.
I think costs (developing and manufacturing a {isix axis gyro controller was the first reason they would've given red light to that idea if ever it was officially presented

 

[Arwin]

I'd say cost must have factored heavily against MS putting a two axis tilt controller on the xbox, as it must've been a factor in developing a 6-axis gyro controller and putting it in the xbox360.
I think costs (developing and manufacturing a {isix axis gyro controller was the first reason they would've given red light to that idea if ever it was officially presented

I doubt that was it. Rather, they dismissed the idea 6 years ago after it failed, and didn't look back, just as Microsoft retreated out of that business because it wasn't profitable enough. I think they've just not considered that it would become a viable concept again some day, or not now anyway, overlooking developments that have improved and more importantly cheapened the technology considerably.

Then when the Wii-mote had been revealed, they were already far too much into the launch to be able to change their mind. And I think Sony, who have considered the concept since day one of the Playstation, may or may not have been influenced by the wii-mote, but certainly had a lot to gain by keeping their plans a secret from Microsoft. Because if the 6 degree thing will in fact make a big difference between the 360 and the PS3, they need Microsoft to catch on as late as possible.

We'll see soon.

As for Rumble, it would have been better to keep it if possible, but I'm going to reserve my judgment - Sony's device isn't necessarily like the other ones, and they may have other reasons - controllers which you use for tilt functions should be light, and rumble would drain the battery a lot (a lot of 360 users turn rumble off for this reason).

In a game like GT4, the feedback you get from the sound of the tire on the rumble strip is far more precise than the rumbling, so I won't miss it there at all. There are some games that used it in a cool way (God of War even), but generally audio and visual feedback can compensate easily enough. The same can't be said of six degrees of extra input.