Formula 1 - 2019 Season

[Bludd]

so leclerc was penalised for the turn 2 verstappen incident which at first was deemed a racing incident and leclerc was penalised for not immediately returning to the pits when he had damage on his car. that combined with the ill-fated fastest lap attempt at the end meant that he lost places which he wouldnt have if he hadnt tried for fastest lap

so now only the mercs can win drivers and constructors is all finished

maybe next year ferrari/red bull/mclaren(?) can challenge from the start of the season

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Was there really any doubt Mercedes wouldn't win both championships? I thought that was pretty clear after a couple of races.

By the way that leclerc penalty was deserved as apparently the FIA told Ferrari to pit him which leclerc ignored. Some debris got stuck in Norris's brake duct, screwing his race, but more importantly, quite big piece ripped off Hamiltons wing mirror. Could have entered the cockpit as well.

 

[hoom]

Has Ferrari demonstrated every way to lose a race yet this season?

Well I think they haven't managed to Haas yet

 

[AlphaWolf]

Well I think they haven't managed to Haas yet

I will look for that in Mexico.

 

[Bludd]

I will look for that in Mexico.

Who will crash into who? Vettel into Leclerc is my bet.

 

[hoom]

So Renault got disqualified from Japan for automatic brake bias which they've apparently been using for years

Brings the 3 finishing Hondas up into the points, Gasly up to 7 & Kvyat on 10th.

Hondas apparently liking the altitude in Mexico with both TRs easily in top 10 P1 & P2 (though that doesn't necessarily mean very much)

 

[Kaotik]

So Renault got disqualified from Japan for automatic brake bias which they've apparently been using for years

It would have been banned years ago if anyone knew about it. It probably wouldn't have come out (despite what they claim) hadn't that one engineer jumped from Renault to Racing Point and told about it.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Bottas crashes hard ending q3 and gifting Verstappen pole position.

Bottas did walk away.

 

[hoom]

It would have been banned years ago if anyone knew about it. It probably wouldn't have come out (despite what they claim) hadn't that one engineer jumped from Renault to Racing Point and told about it.

Its more the using it for years that I'm surprised about.
But if they admit they've been using it for years shouldn't the penalty be bigger than DSQ for one race?

Story on F1 website & Sky Sports doesn't say anything about an engineer? They talk about a gopro cockpit camera vid on youtube.


As well as Verstappen on pole both TRs made it into top 10 but I think they're having to start on softs.

 

[Kaotik]

Its more the using it for years that I'm surprised about.
But if they admit they've been using it for years shouldn't the penalty be bigger than DSQ for one race?

Story on F1 website & Sky Sports doesn't say anything about an engineer? They talk about a gopro cockpit camera vid on youtube.

According to finnish F1 broadcaster Racing Point initially got tipped about it by engineer who jumped ships, which led to paying extra attention to cockpit videos which led to protest

(last edit I promise ) : It was apparently somewhat in the grey area of the rules why they got away with just one race DSQ

As well as Verstappen on pole both TRs made it into top 10 but I think they're having to start on softs.

Verstappen will get penalty. I don't know why they didn't pull him up immediately, but when he started bragging how he didn't slow on double yellows he invited himself to stewards.
If he doesn't get a penalty, it's just another point proving how certain drivers are given more leeway on the rules. You can't do track records when you pass double waved yellows on that lap.

edit: lol, the stewards actually had the audacity to initially claim that Verstappen slowed down

edit2: According to https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-grid-penalty-mexico-qualifying/4587450/ he has now been stripped from the pole position and given a 3 place grid penalty + 2 infraction points on his license. Funny, last time someone did this it was 5 places

edit3:

 

[hoom]

Oh wow, I thought that wouldn't matter since the qualifying time was from before the crash.
But yeah if he passed that crash at full speed with plenty of time to have reacted he should get penalised.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

edit2: According to https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-grid-penalty-mexico-qualifying/4587450/ he has now been stripped from the pole position and given a 3 place grid penalty + 2 infraction points on his license. Funny, last time someone did this it was 5 places

edit3:

Is it though? I read that the official penalty is a 5 place grid drop but ever since Ricciardo was the first to get hit by the penalty, a 3 place drop because apparently drivers weren't fully aware of what was what, all subsequent penalties for the same infraction have been a 3 place grid drop.

 

[Kaotik]

Is it though? I read that the official penalty is a 5 place grid drop but ever since Ricciardo was the first to get hit by the penalty, a 3 place drop because apparently drivers weren't fully aware of what was what, all subsequent penalties for the same infraction have been a 3 place grid drop.

When was this Ricciardo case? Marcus Ericsson got 5 place penalty + 3 infraction points last season Chinese GP for it

late edit: just checked how Ericsson got his 5 place penalty + 3 infraction points. He was told (wrongly) by the team it's single yellows and he "only slowed down 0.5 seconds worth of laptime", which according to stewards wasn't enough so 5 places + 3 infraction points. And now we have stewards first claiming Verstappen slowed down while he's bragging how he didn't slow down at all and asking why should he, "we know what we're doing" being bullish ass he is, and gets only 3 places + 2 points?

 

[hoom]

So they didn't Haas but Ferrari lost it again to Hamilton
Verstappen made a great recovery to 6th behind Albon from last by 60s.

TR did indeed have to start on Soft -> early pit to Hard which didn't last -> 2nd pit later that dropped them down vs teams that were able to single pit.
Kvyat tried a desperation move on Hulkenberg in last lap, spun him off into barrier -> got 10s penalty for it & dropped out of points, Hulkenberg managed to finish, 10th after penalty.
Gasly 9th.

 

[Kaotik]

Didn't notice it during qualifying, but as Verstappen pointed out, shouldn't Hamilton have received a penalty too? He was behind Bottas in the last qualifying last and improved his time despite the crash ahead

 

[cjo]

Didn't notice it during qualifying, but as Verstappen pointed out, shouldn't Hamilton have received a penalty too? He was behind Bottas in the last qualifying last and improved his time despite the crash ahead

He didn't set a personal fastest time during the last sector, the time improvements came earlier in the lap. I think that by the rules, it would have been legally possible to set a fastest time in the final sector and not be penalised, you only need to show you slowed sufficiently during the micro-sectors where the yellow flag was waving.

 

[Kaotik]

He didn't set a personal fastest time during the last sector, the time improvements came earlier in the lap. I think that by the rules, it would have been legally possible to set a fastest time in the final sector and not be penalised, you only need to show you slowed sufficiently during the micro-sectors where the yellow flag was waving.

Good point, but then again, for Ericsson last year slowing down 0.5sec worth of laptime wasn't enough according to stewards

 

[cjo]

Good point, but then again, for Ericsson last year slowing down 0.5sec worth of laptime wasn't enough according to stewards

Ericsson didn't slow down sufficiently for double waved yellow flags; in that case he was supposed to essentially abort his lap. Bottas' crash only resulted in a single waved yellow, which is less serious. If Ericsson's case had been a single waved yellow, his 0.5 seconds would probably have been sufficient.

 

[Kaotik]

Ericsson didn't slow down sufficiently for double waved yellow flags; in that case he was supposed to essentially abort his lap. Bottas' crash only resulted in a single waved yellow, which is less serious. If Ericsson's case had been a single waved yellow, his 0.5 seconds would probably have been sufficient.

Wasn't double-waved? I know it wasn't when Verstappen got there according to FIA, but at least Vettel said it was double waved when he got there and Hamilton was ahead of Vettel so it definitely should have been for him too?

 

[cjo]

Wasn't double-waved? I know it wasn't when Verstappen got there according to FIA, but at least Vettel said it was double waved when he got there and Hamilton was ahead of Vettel so it definitely should have been for him too?

Hamilton was directly behind Bottas. From Hamilton's interviews it sounded like there weren't any flags out yet by the time he got there. And from the looks of this video, it was only single when Vettel got there: https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2019/10/Qualifying__Bottas_suffers_big_shunt_at_the_end_of_Q3.html

You can actually see in that video how close behind Hamilton was, and that the flag wasn't out yet.

I think it's probably time to stop looking for reasons why Hamilton should have got a penalty now. And I mean that generally (after 10 years...) not just for Q3 in Mexico.