Formula 1 - 2018 Season

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kaotik, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,254
    Likes Received:
    1,940
    Location:
    Finland
    Being Verstappen grants immunity on crashing to people but not on shortcutting
     
  2. tongue_of_colicab

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    663
    Location:
    Japan
    At least he isn't the designated second driver :')
     
  3. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,254
    Likes Received:
    1,940
    Location:
    Finland
    You can call the finns second drivers all you want, but until someone gets a scoop on the contract details and there's no shenanigans on the track (too many anyway) you can stick your opinions where they belong, instead of stating them as facts ;)
    So far this season Kimi and Seb have been competing fair, last races switch was obvious due different strategies they had. Mercedes pulled the brakes on Valtteri, but then again, they've told their drivers not to pass each other before too, regardless of who's in front
     
    #223 Kaotik, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  4. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,965
    Likes Received:
    368
    I think Merc made the right call quitting while they were ahead, and Bottas agreed in the post-race interviews. No sense throwing away a 1-2 when there's an actual fight for the constructor's. I'm glad they gave him a shot. Pity his luck (and quali perf) hasn't been better. I much prefer listening to him than hearing Hamilton prattle on about his fans getting him through another race. He's as talented as anyone on the grid and seems like a good guy, but his flimsy PR stabs grate. No, a random British fan didn't incentivize you more than your competitiveness or £30mil base salary or £20mil in performance targets.

    Ferrari shot themselves in the foot by not getting Vettel past Kimi ASAP. I don't get their pussy-footing around the subject. "Kimi, Seb is on a different tire strategy than you. Please let him through."
     
    Lightman and pharma like this.
  5. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    At 50% of the season, with the other drivers in the team 30 or 40 points clear, it makes perfect sense for the lower placed driver to become a "number 2" driver. Driving to support the higher placed driver in the team, as well as removing the risk of both drivers taking each other out is the logical decision, especially when both the WDC and WCC are so close.
     
    pharma likes this.
  6. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,254
    Likes Received:
    1,940
    Location:
    Finland
    Just one DNF and that 30-40 points can suddenly be 5-15 points, in most cases one is lowered to "2nd position" when the difference is either really, really big (30-40 isn't) or as late as the other has lost mathematical chance for championship

    --
    To return to penalties, incompetent stewards and immunity certain driver has, this was worth 5 second penalty (at around 14sec mark).

    There's simply no other explanation to stewards actions last race except actual immunity to any penalties for the princess Hamilton
     
    #226 Kaotik, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    Lightman likes this.
  7. DJ12

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,090
    Likes Received:
    178
    Clear difference being Kimi was blatantly trying too gain an advantage. But again reasoned debate isn't possible with you so let's just leave it at that.
     
  8. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    Yup, I know one DNF can reduce that gap. But if a team wants to win the championship, it doesn't make sense to let the two drivers race. If they get 2 wins each, and the other time prioritises one driver and that driver gets 4 wins, neither driver can catch the other team. It's a similar concept to "vote splitting" in politics, where candidates A and B are "for" something candidate C is "against". A and B get 30% of the vote each, C gets 40%. Altogether, "for" has 60% of the vote, but "against" wins because the votes were divided between A and B.

    For someone who has been watching F1 for so long, I'd have thought you'd be familiar with the concept of a "tow", where one driver follows behind another on straights. The front driver "punches a hole" through the air, which reduces air resistance for the driver behind, allowing them to reach a higher speed. Higher speed tends to equate to lower lap times, which, in essence, is the entire point of the sport. In the video above, that driver was using the (pitting) driver in front to provide a tow and allow him to gain an advantage. In the process of doing this, he crossed a line that he wasn't allowed to cross. To recap, driver broke a rule and gained an advantage over taking the line he should have taken.

    What happened with Hamilton was different. There was confusion, and he gained NO advantage over the line he should have taken if he wasn't going to enter the pits. He broke the rule, the team put their hands up and said "we screwed that up, sorry", and the driver gained no advantage as a result. Hence a slap on the wrist to say "don't do that again", but no further action.

    In summary, in one case, the driver broke the rules and gained a time advantage in doing so, so he was given a penalty that cost him time. In the case of the driver that you're biased against, whine about at every opportunity and generally act like a troll whenever he does anything but allow every other driver to overtake whenever they're within 2 seconds of him: Broke the rule, owned up to it, didn't gain an advantage, didn't get a time penalty for it.
     
  9. entity279

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,236
    Likes Received:
    428
    Location:
    Romania
    That's a technicality. Of course he gained an advantage by not screwing up his strategy as bad as if he were pitting when the team didn't want him to .
     
    Lightman likes this.
  10. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    That's something that's far harder to quantify. He didn't gain an advantage by starting to enter the pit lane and then aborting vs staying on track (which is the thing they look at - and the only thing they can make an objective judgement about). If he had, then a penalty would have definitely been warranted.

    I believe the pit crew were ready for Hamilton, I heard something about Bottas' stop being slow because they had Hamiltons tyres ready (don't know how true that was). Driving through the pitlane under safety car is also far less of a disadvantage than under normal racing conditions.
     
  11. Lightman

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,804
    Likes Received:
    475
    Location:
    Torquay, UK
    Clear rules should not allow to excuse the same offence in any case. Crossed the line at the point of no return should mean automatic penalty. Crossing the line at the point of no return and creating dangerous situation should bear heavier penalty of course.

    This is so simple, no favouritism, no misunderstandings for clear cut offences. Same with track limits where appropriate.
     
  12. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    And crossing the line in a less dangerous situation where there was clearly no time gained on track should mean a lesser penalty. Perhaps, say, a reprimand?
     
  13. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    8,562
    Likes Received:
    430
    Location:
    Treading Water
    A reprimand is no penalty.
     
  14. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    It is. If a driver gets 3 of them in a season, they get a 10 place grid drop at the current or next event.
     
    pharma likes this.
  15. Lightman

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,804
    Likes Received:
    475
    Location:
    Torquay, UK
    No, clear cut minimum penalty for obvious offences. Games can do this, we have technology to do it on track.
    Overtaking manovers or other unsportsman behaviours should be judged by a panel like it is done currently, but simple things like track limits, overtaking under safety car, speeding in the pit lane and so on should be no different to what we get in games, automatic penalty. I want reliable and consistent deterrent so drivers or teams can determine if it's worth paying it or not.
     
    pharma likes this.
  16. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    Yet you want a harsher penalty for creating a "dangerous situation". And there's one rock-solid definition of "dangerous situation" that everyone can agree to and isn't open to interpretation? No. There isn't.

    An advantage of being real life and no a fixed-on-rails game is that people can judge things and take mitigating circumstances in to account to arrive at an appropriate outcome.
     
  17. Lightman

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,804
    Likes Received:
    475
    Location:
    Torquay, UK
    Do you want consistency or drama?

    I prefer consistency. We have minimum penalty for given offence. It's as simple as that.

    You go through red light in UK, it's automatic 3 points and ticket. You go through red light and cause collision, you still get 3 points and ticket, but on top of that judge can add suitable penalties.

    I know what I risk if I want to jump red light.
     
  18. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,254
    Likes Received:
    1,940
    Location:
    Finland
    Teams care for the constructors championship first, and if they have 2 drivers that could win the drivers championship it's all the better, it gives you some "insurance" if something happens to one of them

    Yes, Kimi gained a little from the tow but so did Hamilton - a huge advantage at that. Once you enter the pit entry, you're committed to at least driving through the pitlane even if you don't stop - the amount of time Hamilton didn't lose by crossing back to track was probably close to 10 seconds, since he didn't need to drive at pit limiter speeds
     
  19. cjo

    cjo
    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    131
    You're missing the point. He didn't choose to go down pit entry and then leave it again to gain an advantage (What Kimi did). He would have been better off if he didn't start to go down pit entry. The entire sequence of events left him, at best, in the same position he was in before. It was against the rules, so he got a reprimand to warn him that it isn't acceptable. But given the circumstances where it was provoked by someone over the radio shouting "In! Out! In!", he didn't have even whole seconds to decide what to do. Now he's been given the reprimand I would expect a stronger penalty if he does the same thing again.
     
  20. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    1,687
    Just read an article and was surprised to find out Renault does not have the "extra power mode" that Ferrari and Mercedes do. Does this disadvantage translate into an "off-the-line sprint" or "top-end speed" disadvantage?
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Formula 2018 Season
  1. Bludd
    Replies:
    383
    Views:
    14,724
  2. Dave Baumann
    Replies:
    357
    Views:
    32,717
  3. tabs
    Replies:
    14
    Views:
    1,304
  4. Dave Baumann
    Replies:
    393
    Views:
    25,474
  5. Kaotik
    Replies:
    470
    Views:
    27,605
  6. Dave Baumann
    Replies:
    1,123
    Views:
    89,877

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...