Formula 1 - 2012 Season

[Phil]

I think it's a bit different if a team (or driver) sacrifices his own position in order to receive a 5-place grid penalty and lives with the trade-off of starting from the other side of the grid, but 5 positions further back - compared to a team, using one of their drivers to artificially alter the grid (at the very last minute) in order to give their other driver an advantage.

It would become even more disturbing if it not only alters other drivers, but drivers that are directly competing for the WDC - i.e. if Massa had qualified in front of Vettel and his penalty would be artificially taken for the sole purpose of changing Vettels position.

Obviously, this is something you can not change - unless, the grid penalties alter to an even number - but apart from that, there's no way to police it. Perhaps it would have been better (for the sport) if Ferrari had kept quiet and acted as if they had a genuine fault on the car, rather than officially announce their plan to alter the grid artificially. I also have less trouble with the team using team-orders while the race is on-going to change the order of its drivers. With tactics such as these, I just wonder - how far are they willing to go and where do you draw the line between what is tolerable and what not?

 

[Phil]

Jimbo75 - don't expect a reply if you can't stay on topic. We're talking about the merit of altering the grid (hereby affecting more drivers than just your own) by incuring a grid penality through artificial means on one driver in order to give the other driver an advantage.

We are not talking about anything else - not about technical bounderies being pushed on the car or some other examples of unjust factors. We're discussing like for like. Pointing out other examples of - in your eyes - unfairness to make something that's entirely different right - or justifiable isn't a constructive argument in this case.

 

[jimbo75]

Ok first of all - Alonso's supposed gain when Grosjean had a gearbox change was in fact a loss for half the field including him as they were put on the dirty side of the track. By breaking the seal on Massa's gearbox they simply fixed that loss and everybody bar Raikkonen and Schumacher started on their qualifying side. Massa actually regained the good side of the track as well, helping to mitigate his 5 place penalty somewhat (I forgot about that).

Look at it as righting a wrong instead of gaining an unfair advantage, because that's what it was for half the field.

So in the end up, the only real losers on the grid were Raikkonen and Massa. Raikkonen's loss was down to his team-mate and just bad luck. Massa didn't like the decision but agreed it was in the best interests of the team. Considering how he has single-handedly cost them any chance of the constructors championship, and offered absolutely no help to Alonso in terms of the drivers...AND went on to have one of his best races of the season - I'm not really sympathetic to him.

 

[Phil]

Drivers Press Conference Interlagos:

[YT]PAcU9ELi_6Y&feature=player_embedded[/YT]

 

[DJ12]

Another easy Hamilton win by the looks of it, hope he enjoys it as he won't get many (if any) next year.

 

[Tahir2]

Another easy Hamilton win by the looks of it, hope he enjoys it as he won't get many (if any) next year.

Easy win for Hamilton? Based on this seasons form, not likely!

 

[Davros]

I hope next year is a 4 way shoot out
ferrari pull the same trick, redbull retaliate and do the same, then mclaren do it then lotus then mercedes
that'll be fun

 

[Kaotik]

Finnish driver Heikki Kovalainen looks like he's ending up with no spots left in any team because he's not bringing big sponsor package with him.

Finnish long time F1 reporter Heikki Kulta interviewed him in Brazil, and at the end of interview threw as joke that since Kimi is paying his brothers rally driving, maybe he could ask Kimi for a sponsor package to get a spot next season, which to Heikki replied "Maybe I should ask him for that late at night at the end of the season party"

It would be great though, Kimi paying Heikki sponsor money to get him to Lotus, he's not that fast (ie not top driver), true, but he's reliable and would really streghten Lotuses position in manufacturers championship

 

[Dave Baumann]

Caterham just snagged Charles Pic from Marussia and apparently he is bankrolled. This might give Heikki a lifeline with the team.

 

[jimbo75]

I thought Kovalainen would have got himself a chance at Sauber or Force India. His early season performances deserved him another chance.

For the race, Hamilton does look fast and it might just be possible that Button can get in there too. Still praying for rain though!

 

[Tahir2]

Caterham just snagged Charles Pic from Marussia and apparently he is bankrolled. This might give Heikki a lifeline with the team.

Caterham asked Heikki for money, my impression is that they want two paid drivers next season unless they beat Marussia in the constructors.

 

[Kaotik]

I thought Kovalainen would have got himself a chance at Sauber or Force India. His early season performances deserved him another chance.

For the race, Hamilton does look fast and it might just be possible that Button can get in there too. Still praying for rain though!

The problem is that he doesn't have sponsor behind him, and Sauber at least took another mexican driver because of their sponsor, and apparently already had deal for next season on Hülkenberg

 

[jimbo75]

They're going to struggle to fix that for Kimi before qualifying. RB setup looks wrong, they are losing too much time in the 3rd sector.

If I were Alonso I'd be asking for Massa's car tbh

Alonso in real trouble here, can't even beat the Force India's in 3rd practice.

Well based on that final practice, the McLarens and Red Bulls will be fighting it out for the top 4 spots in qualifying, followed by the Force India's and Lotus (Kimi's blown engine will no doubt affect his qualifying). Best I can see for Alonso is 7th but probably 9th or 10th is more likely.

 

[jimbo75]

Rain

 

[Billy Idol]

Grosjean...lol!
Rain is cool!

 

[jimbo75]

Sigh@Grosjean.

I agree with Eddie Jordan though, I don't think it was his fault there.

 

[Billy Idol]

Sigh@Grosjean.

I agree with Eddie Jordan though, I don't think it was his fault there.

Hm, not sure...but he did hit him with his front wing in his rear tyres...

 

[jimbo75]

Yep having looked at it again, it was Grosjean's fault. I think it's suprising just how much faster the Lotus was and it caught him out.

Another poor q2 from Di Resta after showing a lot of promise up till now.

 

[Billy Idol]

Wonder if they change gearbox...

 

[UniversalTruth]

Massa is next to Vettel on the grid. So, the best would be if Felipe throws out of the race the german.