I don't think there was anything "kamikaze" about that overtaking attempt.
Formula 1 - 2010 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
I don't think there was anything "kamikaze" about that overtaking attempt.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I agree. Though it was risky as he should have left Webber more space. Basically he cut off Webber's space to brake so he could either go into the wall or Hamilton. Maybe it wasn't too smart of a move but certainly not kamikaze.
chavvdarrr
Veteran
No, it was they way he overtakes - supposing that the other man will be afraid and will let him go.
"kamikaze" as in - there's no way there will be room but let's do it anyway (in this case, he already forced Webber to go straight over the kerbs, there was no way he could have avoided the collision)
Of course there was - he [Webber] could have conceded that Hamilton was further in front and braked earlier. It was risky for him not to do that as the result could easily have been reversed.
He had to try, its the championship at stake. I can't but think that McLaren were really underestimating the speed of Mark Webber's car and state of his tires. The told their drivers multiple times to go for it because Mark's tires were off, but he responded each time being quicker then they could be. If Hamilton managed to successfully pass Webber when he tried, would he have been able to keep Mark behind. Of course it doesn't matter now, whats done is done.
That was a fantastic race. Vettel was pressuring Alonso the whole race and it was breathless stuff at the very end. Amazing work by Kubica after he had to pit for new tyres after a puncture, he just overtook everyone when he came out on new tyres. He couldn't catch up to Barrichello.
Hamilton's crash was a pure racing incident IMHO. Webber wouldn't give in and it was pure luck that only Hamilton's suspension broke.
Webber's strategy was, at first look, very risky, but they pulled it off and the safety car basically ruined Massa's chances. He was on very old tyres, so he was pretty much where he could have ended up regardless, maybe a few places further forward was all he could have hoped for.
This was supposed to be a Red Bull track and they should have had a front row lockout. Alonso showed them up and now he's just 11 points behind Webber.
This season is so amazing. I can't wait for the next race. TOMA ALONSO!
Hamilton's crash was a pure racing incident IMHO. Webber wouldn't give in and it was pure luck that only Hamilton's suspension broke.
Webber's strategy was, at first look, very risky, but they pulled it off and the safety car basically ruined Massa's chances. He was on very old tyres, so he was pretty much where he could have ended up regardless, maybe a few places further forward was all he could have hoped for.
This was supposed to be a Red Bull track and they should have had a front row lockout. Alonso showed them up and now he's just 11 points behind Webber.
This season is so amazing. I can't wait for the next race. TOMA ALONSO!
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Webber 'very lucky' to finish race says Bridgestone
25 laps with a tyre almost coming off. Wow.
25 laps with a tyre almost coming off. Wow.
Actually they seriously underestimated the state of their own tires while they remained on the soft. When they were telling them to push Webber was getting down the the 1.52's while Button and Hamilton were slipping down to 1.54. As soon as Hamilon got his new tires up to temp he was post both green and purple sectors and the lap before the safety car only Vettel was quicker.
I like Webber, but I think he was very lucky there to get away without a penality and more importantly, not damage his car.
Webber got cought out with the Virgin cars, ended up on the wrong side of the track (dirty side) and had Hamilton pass him completely. Lewis at this point had made the move and was in front, while also being on the racing line. Webber was on the inside, thus had to break earlier. The only reason he ended up in Hamiltons blind spot was because he went for it and tried to undercut him.
Kubica pulled off a few similar moves later in the race, without leaving more room than Hamilton - the only difference was the cars Kubica passed yielded their position that Webber didn't. Looking back at Monza, Webber was extremely lucky to get away with this one. I don't mind him not getting a penalty for it though.
Webber got cought out with the Virgin cars, ended up on the wrong side of the track (dirty side) and had Hamilton pass him completely. Lewis at this point had made the move and was in front, while also being on the racing line. Webber was on the inside, thus had to break earlier. The only reason he ended up in Hamiltons blind spot was because he went for it and tried to undercut him.
Kubica pulled off a few similar moves later in the race, without leaving more room than Hamilton - the only difference was the cars Kubica passed yielded their position that Webber didn't. Looking back at Monza, Webber was extremely lucky to get away with this one. I don't mind him not getting a penalty for it though.
When Hamilton forced Webber out from track to over the curbskerbswhatever, he was only half car length ahead, not completely.
That's because Webber undercut him. If Webber had breaked earlier given by his line into that corner, he wouldn't have been as close to Hamilton as he ended up being. Of course Webber went wide and hit Hamilton.
Point is, Hamilton was ahead and on the racing line. Webber wasn't. That's what you call an over oportunistic move. Hamilton did it in Monza, Webber in Singapore.
You've reversed causality. It was LH overtaking & sweeping around the outside of MW. The apex was MW's who was squeezed by LH in the braking zone. Indeed MW left plenty of room on the outside given LH had to deal with going wide at the apex. So it wasn't MW ducking up the inside like LH did with FM at Monza. MW just didn't yield & nor should he given they were racing for a podium. The pic above says it all. LH was never clear of MW. If he had been, MW would've rear-ended him again...
It is still a racing incident, though. Webber couldn't go away and Hamilton didn't leave him enough room on the apex. Webber was lucky in that his suspension held and that his tyre stayed on. And stevem is right, it was Hamilton who overtook and Webber who defended his position. Hamilton was ahead but he wasn't clear.
You've reversed causality. It was LH overtaking & sweeping around the outside of MW. The apex was MW's who was squeezed by LH in the braking zone. Indeed MW left plenty of room on the outside given LH had to deal with going wide at the apex. So it wasn't MW ducking up the inside like LH did with FM at Monza. MW just didn't yield & nor should he given they were racing for a podium. The pic above says it all. LH was never clear of MW. If he had been, MW would've rear-ended him again...
Indeed. If one wants to see what Hamilton should have done, look how Kubica passed someone in that corner.
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You've reversed causality. It was LH overtaking & sweeping around the outside of MW. The apex was MW's who was squeezed by LH in the braking zone. Indeed MW left plenty of room on the outside given LH had to deal with going wide at the apex. So it wasn't MW ducking up the inside like LH did with FM at Monza. MW just didn't yield & nor should he given they were racing for a podium. The pic above says it all. LH was never clear of MW. If he had been, MW would've rear-ended him again...
To make things clear:
Lewis was ahead on Webber at least by the length of his own car along the straight, right after passing the Virgin.
Lewis was on the racing line.
Lewis was still ahead going into the corner.
Lewis was on better, fresher tyres.
The racing line is an issue, because that is where the better grip is. Lewis, as stated above, made the pass on Webber down the straight. He knew he was ahread, was braking on the better line and so it would be a pretty good assumption to assume that the corner was his. Also consider that Webber was on the inside of the corner, thus had to break earlier to avoid going extremely wide. He didn't, he braked later and got partially along side. Lewis couldn't see him and though he left a bit of room on turn in just in case, it wasn't enough and they colided.
What was Webber thinking?
He was far too quick into that corner, braking on the dirty side of the track. He never made it side by side to successfully outbreak Lewis into that corner.
This move was far too optimistic, just as Hamiltons one was in Monza, trying to get up the inside of Massa.
There's a bit of difference overtaking mid-pack/back-markers & those at the pointy end. Ultimately I don't think that LH's move was wrong. The opportunity presented & he attempted it. One patch of tarmac that neither wanted to concede. Perhaps LH could've gone wider, perhaps MW could've let LH overtake - what's the likelihood of either? Racing incident.
Perhaps LH could've been more circumspect the last two races, but that's not always in his DNA. He has impressed me this year & handled himself well after the incident, just bad luck that his car broke & lucky for MW that his lasted to the finish.
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