Silent_Buddha
Legend
Hate that. Wish there were multiple tire providers as in the past.
Also only available at "pre-determined positions."
Regards,
SB
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Formula 1 - 2010 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
Hate that. Wish there were multiple tire providers as in the past.
Also only available at "pre-determined positions."
Regards,
SB
Amazing lap by Vettel to clinch pole ahead of Webber and Hamilton. Alonso couldn't get the options to work and ended up fourth.
I am not super-hopeful about the race tomorrow, but we'll see. Maybe Alonso can do a magic trick for his home fans.
I am not super-hopeful about the race tomorrow, but we'll see. Maybe Alonso can do a magic trick for his home fans.
Soft tyres didn't work for both Ferrari and Renault (new floor), if not that they should be ahead of Lewis (and he knew that
). Anyway race is today and lets hope F1 drivers are more cautious than GP2 ones at the start chavvdarrr
Veteran
so.
Anyone still thinking Hamilton is NOT treated like a semi god?
passing safety car is allowed... for some people. /sarcasm
Anyone still thinking Hamilton is NOT treated like a semi god?
passing safety car is allowed... for some people. /sarcasm
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Though I don't like hamilton at all in this case I can understand what he did. It was clear he wasn't quite sure what to do, If he was still allowed to pass before the second line or not. If you can still overtake the safetycar while its in the pitlane exit all hamilton had to do is keep going instead of holding back a sort while and it would have been fine.
But it ended up to be unfair yes. Afterall Alonso and Massa could have blasted past the safety car, take the drive trough penalty and they would have probably ended up way better than they did now.
Oh and Webbers crash was awsome to see. I was like WTF?! its flying! the onboard shot was even better. First you saw a Lotus, than you saw air, than you saw the world upside down and than the road. Though for I moment is was worrying if he would just get out of the car without any injury but he did. Must have been one hell of a rollercoaster ride
When I was watching it, I had to think about 2 songs right away. ''I believe I can fly'' and ''What goes up, must come down'' hehe.
But it ended up to be unfair yes. Afterall Alonso and Massa could have blasted past the safety car, take the drive trough penalty and they would have probably ended up way better than they did now.
Oh and Webbers crash was awsome to see. I was like WTF?!
its flying! the onboard shot was even better. First you saw a Lotus, than you saw air, than you saw the world upside down and than the road. Though for I moment is was worrying if he would just get out of the car without any injury but he did. Must have been one hell of a rollercoaster ride When I was watching it, I had to think about 2 songs right away. ''I believe I can fly'' and ''What goes up, must come down'' hehe.
he was given a drive through penalty, although it didn't cost him any position because it took them 20 minutes to rule on it.
chavvdarrr
Veteran
yep, stewards had to be sure not to rule it too early or too harsh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3lFmUDoBZs
That was insane. If Alonso and Massa had just overtaken the SC like Hamilton and taken their penalties they would be much further up the grid.
Kobayashi was good, though. He's back to what he was in the Toyota at the end of last year.
5 second penalties for the people who didn't follow their deltas? Bullshit, should have been a drive through so at least 20 seconds.
Kobayashi was good, though. He's back to what he was in the Toyota at the end of last year.
5 second penalties for the people who didn't follow their deltas? Bullshit, should have been a drive through so at least 20 seconds.
I've been thinking a bit more about the Hamilton SC incident. Isn't what Hamilton did akin to not respecting the red lights at the end of the pit lane when the snake is going by? I personally think Hamilton should have been shown the black flag.
Hamilton slowed down upon seing the safety car. At that point the safety car hadn't exited the pit lane yet (curb, not just white line between the track and the pit lane), he then sped up and overtook the SC when it had entered the race track proper (only white line seperating pit exit lane and race track).
If Hamilton had just gone full throttle there wouldn't have been any controversy. As it is, it is a clear violation. Twenty seconds wasn't enough. You could see how disgruntled Heinz Harald Frentzen (advisor to the stewards in Valencia) looked when he realized Hamilton wouldn't lose position from the twenty second penalty. The penalty should have been larger.
The one who really got shafted was Alonso.
I think there is a fundamental problem with the way the safety car is being used. It is basically a lottery ticket for some and ruin for others. IMO, the race cars should line up behind the SC in race order before the race is started again.
Cheers
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Well the whole idea of the SC is it picks up the leader but than they do need to make sure to do that and not just let it go out whenever they feel like it.
Well, I can understand they had to deploy it instantly this weekend, the crash was spectacular, can't believe Webber just walked away.
Cheers
Hamilton was very fortunate, yes. But his cause was also helped by the split second decision he had to make while running alongside the safety car, slowing down by not being sure and then having it pass him just before the line (probably not even to his knowledge). At this point, the safety car was also behind the pit lane safety line.This kind of 'unfortunate incident' is a lot less severe then if you'd have someone overtake the safety car while it's on the track where it's supposed to pick up the runners.
Hamiltons cause was also helped by Saubers gamble of keeping Kobayashi out in 3rd position. You can't blame Hamilton for his fortunate situation in this case. Not only did he extend his lead over Kobayashi to put him into that unique situation, but the pitlane is also rather short in Valencia which benefited his cause. In any other GP, he would have dropped right into the pack. Also, it's not as if the drive-through didn't do any harm - it effectively gave Vettel an easy win.
Since safety cars have been part of races, it has always favoured and disadvantaged many strategies by teams that worked hard to gain an advantage. Yesterday, it fortunately worked out for Hamilton despite the drive-through and it didn't for Ferrari. It's as simple as that.
For what ever it's worth, had Hamilton not slipped in front the safety car, Ferrari wouldn't have gained any position at all anyway, so they can cry and winge all they want IMO. They're definately not the first to have been shafted by the safety car and won't be the last either.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
I agree with this. There is nothing more annoying and unsportsmanlike thing than a safety car altering race results.
While this is true, there isn't really any way around it. This problem was very evident last year already - especially with the factor of the pit being closed until the correct order behind the safety car is established and teams started to run into trouble that were scheduled to have a refueling-stop before that and couldn't without getting either a penality or running dry on track.
Now with refueling gone, the situation has become better, but you still have the problem that a safety car will always benefit some teams and their strategies. In the case of an early safety car, it clearly benefits the teams running on the option tyres while the teams on the hard tyres are left with a huge disadvantage of not getting a "free stop" effectively. If a driver also gains a healthy lead, these are also neutralized, like Webber in Monaco. Thanks to his driving, the quality of the tyres and the difficult overtaking situation there, it didn't impact the race. In any other race, where tyre-wear and underfueling strategies are crucial, it would have.
This isn't anything new.
I do have to say though, I find it highly amusing that Alonso is so sissy about Hamiltons rather relatively innocent fortune, while he himself (and the team) was the main benefitor from what was clearly and undoubtly "race manipulation" by having the team force a safety car last year. Oh the irony...
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Yep I was in no way saying that this occasion was somehow worse than previous ones. The safety car is not as bad anymore, but it's still bad. Actually I don't care about it quite as much anymore, because I don't care who wins anymore, but it's still very annoying to see people's races ruined by the safety car. There are ways around it, but the solutions would probably be too complicated to be implemented properly.
They could pit the cars and release them with correct pre-safetycar gaps to the track. Yep that's a hassle, but imo better alternative.
Testing major updates in season is allowed for some teams if its called a "filming day" as well.
Are you seriously comparing passing the safety car, which can have serious safety repercussions with a testing agreement interpretation?Testing major updates in season is allowed for some teams if its called a "filming day" as well.
And if we are going to start doing this, what about a team that sends its driver out in qualifying without enough fuel to complete it?
I'm saying the "crying foul" is never going to get anywhere because there are always transgressions, intentional or accidental. Depedant on who you favour you are always going to see one thing as the worst thing on earth while overlooking others for someone else.
To point out that both of Mclaren's cases were marginal and you can't say they were premeditated. Hamilton's call on Sunday was a spur of the moment thing and the safety issue would be no different had he been a meter in front of the SC as opposed to a meter behind, its just one would have been allowed in the rules and one wouldn't; he was punished for his judgement.
The qualifying case we don't know if it was premediated or it - it could have been, but it could also have been a mistake. When they found the fuel level they made a judgement call which to adhear to - the one in the rulebook, or the one that was faxed to teams. Again, they were penalised.
To point out that both of Mclaren's cases were marginal and you can't say they were premeditated. Hamilton's call on Sunday was a spur of the moment thing and the safety issue would be no different had he been a meter in front of the SC as opposed to a meter behind, its just one would have been allowed in the rules and one wouldn't; he was punished for his judgement.
The qualifying case we don't know if it was premediated or it - it could have been, but it could also have been a mistake. When they found the fuel level they made a judgement call which to adhear to - the one in the rulebook, or the one that was faxed to teams. Again, they were penalised.
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