Formula 1 - 2008 Season

[Tokelil]

Massa should not have been penalized at all. What a joke... The cars didn't even touch for crying out loud!

So driving down pit lane two cars side by side is okay? Besides they didn't hit each others because Sutil managed to pull further to the left to avoid it, in which case the rule book is quite clear Massa should have had a penalty. (I'm kind of glad he didn't since it would have put Hamilton further ahead in the championship, but it was a weak decision by the Stuarts IMO)

Anyway, as one said this race was quite boring and didn't deliver any real overtaking. The setting it Valencia was really nice and all, but I had hoped for more (on track) action.

 

[Kaotik]

So driving down pit lane two cars side by side is okay? Besides they didn't hit each others because Sutil managed to pull further to the left to avoid it, in which case the rule book is quite clear Massa should have had a penalty. (I'm kind of glad he didn't since it would have put Hamilton further ahead in the championship, but it was a weak decision by the Stuarts IMO)

Anyway, as one said this race was quite boring and didn't deliver any real overtaking. The setting it Valencia was really nice and all, but I had hoped for more (on track) action.

Yes it is OK (or would have been if Hamilton would have stopped at red light like Räikkönen & Kubica (I think it was Kubica?))
No-one ever even started thinking about them driving side-by-side would have been dangerous or against rules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsXs5yWxyzo

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The rules make no matter if this is team or driver - penalties have been applied in the past for an infringement like this and they did so in the GP2 race beforehand.

These punishments are not there to be applied only when something happens, the punishments are applied as deterants so that they don't happen in the future to ensure the rules that are there, for safety purposes, are adheared to.

Really? Like last year when McLaren were fined for stealing Ferrari I.P. and Lewis and Alonso still kept their points. When everyone but McLaren were saying the McLaren drivers should've lost their points, but didn't. Like last year when McLaren used two sets of wets on Lewis' car and he was not penalised but McLaren was. Like that hey?

I don't see why Massa should've gotten a penalty, neither it seems did the stewards.

US

 

[chavvdarrr]

I am very disappointed. There weren't any real overtaking in the race and noting properly dramatic happened (Massa vs. Sutil wasn't really that close, Räikkönen messed up and injured the fuel guy and Nakajima took Alonso out, that's basically it).

Big huge meh. I hope the race next year will be better.

I agree, and unfortunately I'm quite sure on this track that will be - one more "Monaco" or "hungaroring".
Whats the point of racing such tracks? Unless it rains or car crashes, NOTHING is happening!
Why even bother watching this "show"?!

I agree with Tongue that there was no reason to penalize Massa, tho why Kimi is not penalized is beyond me

 

[Tokelil]

I agree with Tongue that there was no reason to penalize Massa, tho why Kimi is not penalized is beyond me

We have seen "lots" of cases where drivers have dragged mechanics after the car and I can't remember that the drivers have ever been penalized for it.

 

[chavvdarrr]

We have seen "lots" of cases where drivers have dragged mechanics after the car and I can't remember that the drivers have ever been penalized for it.

well, they should be.
LH was penalised for hitting Kimi in pitlane also on "red" lights, this time we even have an injoured man... or in F1, a "simple" mechanic is not so important and is "replaceable" ?

 

[Kaotik]

well, they should be.
LH was penalised for hitting Kimi in pitlane also on "red" lights, this time we even have an injoured man... or in F1, a "simple" mechanic is not so important and is "replaceable" ?

That's different, the red lights at the pitlane are official stuff, the "red lights" Räikkönen jumpstarted are Ferrari's own replacement for the "lollipop guy"
Also, ruining other competants race by smashing his car in such situation is completely different thing altogether no matter how important mechanics are

 

[Unknown Soldier]

well, they should be.
LH was penalised for hitting Kimi in pitlane also on "red" lights, this time we even have an injoured man... or in F1, a "simple" mechanic is not so important and is "replaceable" ?

LH took out a competitor. Kimi took out his own mechanic and lost a few places. 'Nuff said

US

 

[infinity4]

It would have been a shame if massa was penalised - Hard work on qualifying, maintaining his lead throughout the race, before seeing himself penalised for something he couldn't do.

 

[Bludd]

"The Mole" columns over at grandprix.com are almost always a good read, this one is no exception:

http://www.grandprix.com/mole/mole20706.html

And I think that the engines must follow the car industry," The Don went on. "They must be what the industry wants. No-one needs thumping great engines these days. They are heavy and wasteful. If the sport wants manufacturer money it needs to give them what they want so they can sell more cars, lower their company-wide emissions, improve fuel efficiency and yet still be cost-effective. And if you look at the industry you can see a shift going on towards smaller turbocharged engines, operating with direct fuel injection systems and ethanol-gasoline mixtures.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Hmmm

"And freezing the engines has meant that the timesheets have become much tighter. A tenth of a second can mean the difference between sixth on the grid or 17th, which makes most of the teams seem really inconsistent and creates wrong impressions about how well a team is doing. The fact that we have seen odd results like a Honda or Nelson Piquet on the podium shows that any small disruption can make a difference. There is no longer any room for error. That is why the cars are so reliable."

In what way is it better to be able to make mistakes? these are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, mistakes should be punished. It would be very bad if one could make a bunch of mistakes and still win while others who dont cant win just because the passing is so hard.

This will create more overtaking and will also be useful technology for the car industry

No. First of all something like a push to pass is extremely bad as it means you can overtake because of a faster car, not because you are the better driver. Secondly the likes of toyota and renault already said KERS is useless and way to limited to be of any use in the car industry. Toyota is already running way way more advanced stuff in Japanese endurance racing (btw, endurance racing is the place stuff like this should be used, not F1). All KERS did is make teams spend millions the supposedly saved with the engine freeze.

I think it would be terrific to see active wings and turbulence sensors that can activate systems to change ride-heights

How about unbanning active suspension?

"And I think that the engines must follow the car industry," The Don went on. "They must be what the industry wants. No-one needs thumping great engines these days. They are heavy and wasteful. If the sport wants manufacturer money it needs to give them what they want so they can sell more cars, lower their company-wide emissions, improve fuel efficiency and yet still be cost-effective.

Again, all this stuff should be saved for endurance racing as that is the kind of sport that have a real benefit from this stuff. Not F1, that is just about going round in circles for as fast as you can no matter what and this should be changed as that is what F1 is. For things like fuel efficency and cost we have 24 hour races. That, btw is alot closer to road cars than F1 cars will ever be btw. Like a F1 engine, even with stuff like KERS is going to be even remotely close to what you got in a normal car...

The engines are smaller and lighter so the cars weigh less and thus require less fuel to move them.

Good thing your average F1 car only weights 400kg and has 200kg of ballast on it. Just change the rules to remove that and your done, 1/3 weight save without any effort.

These people are always going to spend money in order to win but if you can reduce the amount they can spend it is a good thing. They will go on spending on new technologies but if these have little effect then everyone has more chance."

Given that teams are going to spend their budget anyway (just as the engine freeze didnt save money but just got the money going elsewhere) I think its stupid to say that its better to have them waste their money on something with little use. I'd rather have them spend their money on big improvements, maybe that will end up usefull in cars (like material development).

 

[DJ12]

I get about 8 miles to the gallon when I trash my Subaru STI around (about the same as a big american V8), turbos increase fuel use in performance cars not reduce it.

Turbos should be brought back because they are fun, not for any other reason.

 

[Moloch]

Well your ECU prolly richens up the mixture quite a bit when you boost so you dont kill the engine.

 

[Bludd]

But direct injection of fuel improves fuel efficiency and with turbos, you have a smaller displacement (1.2 litre or something) which also should reduce consumption.

Anyway, it may rain at Spa this weekend. Hopefully Alonso can bounce back from Valencia and F1 can bounce back from a terribly boring race.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Hamilton claims the pole position!

Proving that the nothing can ever be taken for granted in Formula One, Lewis Hamilton scorched to pole position this afternoon at Spa Francorchamps by some margin over his nearest rival.

Making it a level playing field, the rains held off in qualifying for the Belgian Grand Prix and as ever it was the final lap right at the end of qualifying that determined the grid order. Hamilton claimed the pole with an excellent lap in 1:47.338s, over three-tenths clear of Felipe Massa.

The Ferrari driver’s penultimate lap of the session left him just fifth on the grid after an error under braking for the final chicane. Massa’s final effort was a solid clean lap that puts him on the front-row of the grid alongside his McLaren Mercedes rival.

While Hamilton celebrates an important 11th career pole, Heikki Kovalainen qualified the second McLaren in third position, albeit nearly half a second off the ultimate pace and perhaps indicating slightly varying fuel strategies.

Kimi Raikkonen starts from fourth position as he chases his fourth straight win at the Belgian Grand Prix circuit. The Finn has not shown good pace in qualifying this year, but starting from the second-row is not a disaster, but does make life more difficult than he would have liked.

Nick Heidfeld led the way at BMW Sauber today with fifth position on the grid. It is a timely result for the German veteran as he fights to retain his position within the team next season. Team-mate Robert Kubica has looked off-form all weekend and starts a low-key eighth in the second F1.08, four-tenths off Heidfeld’s pace.

Fernando Alonso was again strong for Renault as he lines up in sixth position ahead of the similarly-powered Red Bull of Mark Webber who once again did a fine job with a car that has proven difficult in recent races.

Both Toro Rosso Ferrari drivers made the top ten and went on to qualify ninth and tenth with Vettel opting to compete just one run in final qualifying while Bourdais completed the traditional two runs.

After showing so well in recent races, qualifying was a disappointment for Toyota with Jarno Trulli and Timo Glock setting the 11th and 13th fastest times respectively with Nelson Piquet splitting the two in the second Renault. For Piquet, he remains the only driver to be out-qualified by his team-mate in every race so far this year and that’s not something for the CV.

David Coulthard qualified 14th in the second Red Bull Renault but it was a poor day for the Williams Toyota team with Nico Rosberg 15th in the first and second round of qualifying and unable to make much progress with the difficult FW30.

As expected, Honda did not shine in qualifying with Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button 16th and 17th ahead of Adrian Sutil who did a good job and certainly pushed the Force India Ferrari to its limit for 18th position.

At the back, Kazuki Nakajima was very disappointing again in the second Williams and lines up 19th some seven-tenths slower than his team-mate but ahead of veteran Force India driver Giancarlo Fisichella.

The 44-lap Belgian Grand Prix is again all about McLaren and Ferrari at the front and hopefully it will prove to be more of a race than the recent Valencia parade.

News Source: http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/06092008/13/hamilton-claims-pole-position.html

Belgian GP - *Qualifiying

P.	Driver			Team		Time
1	Lewis Hamilton		McLaren		1:47.338	
2	Felipe Massa		Ferrari		0:00.729	
3	Heikki Kovalainen	McLaren		0:00.866	
4	Kimi Räikkönen		Ferrari		0:01.043	
5	Nick Heidfeld		BMW		0:01.366	
6	Fernando Alonso		Renault		0:01.555	
7	Mark Webber		Red Bull	0:01.787	
8	Robert Kubica		BMW		0:01.814	
9	Sebastien Bourdais	Toro Rosso	0:02.002	
10	Sebastian Vettel	Toro Rosso	0:03.370	
11	Jarno Trulli		Toyota		0:00.000	
12	Nelson Piquet		Renault		0:00.016	
13	Timo Glock		Toyota		0:00.046	
14	David Coulthard		Red Bull	0:00.069	
15	Nico Rosberg		Williams	0:00.480	
16	Rubens Barrichello	Honda		0:01.204	
17	Jenson Button		Honda		0:01.262	
18	Adrian Sutil		Force India	0:01.277	
19	Kazuki Nakajima		Williams	0:01.319	
20	Giancarlo Fisichella	Force India	0:01.498

 

[dizietsma]

Should be cracking up Eau Rouge tomorrow ..wheel to wheel ... one can only hope.

 

[dizietsma]

Possibly should have posted this on the movie thread but thought you petrolheads would appreciate it more

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4HV66hkiNAK1O2lDL

Great rider, the word respect is sadly over used today but for Dave, a gentle big bloke, it is well worth using. He is still sadly missed.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Possibly should have posted this on the movie thread but thought you petrolheads would appreciate it more

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4HV66hkiNAK1O2lDL

Great rider, the word respect is sadly over used today but for Dave, a gentle big bloke, it is well worth using. He is still sadly missed.

Wow, that was awesome.

US

 

[Bludd]

Happy to see Alonso on row three. I wonder if Massa will do what he did in Hungary, though Hammy did really well during quali.

I also wonder if it will rain. I hope so. Rain at Spa is awesome.

 

[Deepak]

What a DRAMATIC finish. Raikonnen couldn't handle the pressure.