Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

Nintendo are really good at seeing the potential for making money out of stuff, and understand the benefits of offering something distinct. They are very good at refining products. They also have the balls to take risks. But if copying an idea can make them lots of money they'll do it and are no different than anyone else.

I disagree, to me Sony & Microsoft are listening to their existing customer base and trying to appeal to them, whereas Nintendo is trying to appeal to everyone.

If you read Miyamoto's interviews, it seems clear that Nintendo went for the Wii because he (and likely other people at Nintendo) couldn't share the result of his work with his whole family (Miyamoto mentions his parents).

To me that's a major difference, Nintendo love games and want to share that, Microsoft and Sony see a market and want to make a lot of money out of it.

(Obviously Nintendo is here to make money too, noone would like to lose money even doing what they love ! :p)
 
I disagree, to me Sony & Microsoft are listening to their existing customer base and trying to appeal to them, whereas Nintendo is trying to appeal to everyone.

If you read Miyamoto's interviews, it seems clear that Nintendo went for the Wii because he (and likely other people at Nintendo) couldn't share the result of his work with his whole family (Miyamoto mentions his parents).

To me that's a major difference, Nintendo love games and want to share that, Microsoft and Sony see a market and want to make a lot of money out of it.

(Obviously Nintendo is here to make money too, noone would like to lose money even doing what they love ! :p)

Finally, someone else who understands. Nintendo is not all about marketing like Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is a company that is about ideals. The ideals come first then they trying to adapt things to them. Sony and Microsoft on the other hand are generic big business. They are all about money.

Nintendo = Goals' first
Sony and Microsoft = Money first.
 
Finally, someone else who understands. Nintendo is not all about marketing like Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is a company that is about ideals. The ideals come first then they trying to adapt things to them. Sony and Microsoft on the other hand are generic big business. They are all about money.

Nintendo = Goals' first
Sony and Microsoft = Money first.

:LOL:
Stop all companies are about money... It's getting trollish again
 
Saying I don't understand and asking a question does not infer a suggestion, it infers that I am confused and would like clarifaction which was the point of asking a question.
You don't phrase yourself that way.

Where did I say that?
"Its like the people in this thread are obsessed with FPS and think that Nintendo should tailor the console to suit there desires for playing that one genre of game."

I barely play FPS, and I don't think any contributor to this thread is single-mindedly an FPS player.

What reason is there to be mistrusting?
Years of experience of independent online services not delivering. Now I ask you the flip-question, what reason is there to trust that if left to the third parties to implement necessary features, you can be sure they'll deliver what's wanted? COD could probably be trusted to implement voice chat, for example, but maybe not party mechanics. And smaller titles like Dead Nations/Alien Breed could very well go the way of PSN.

I've not known Nintendo to go back on their word often.
They don't have to go back on their word, because their word hasn't offered any promises that they could renege on!
 
Finally, someone else who understands. Nintendo is not all about marketing like Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is a company that is about ideals. The ideals come first then they trying to adapt things to them. Sony and Microsoft on the other hand are generic big business. They are all about money.

Nintendo = Goals' first
Sony and Microsoft = Money first.

Oh please :rolleyes:

They are all three corporations, and concerned about profit first. However if one appears "greedier" to me than the others, it would have to be Nintendo and it's practice of putting terrible, cheap hardware out at a very high price (Wii, 3DS, even DS).

Wii was literally an overclocked Gamecube internally. Gamecube was selling for 99 dollars and I'm sure it was profitable at the end of last gen. At $250 Nintendo must have made about $200 per system, while Sony and MS where putting high end hardware and losing money in theirs. For that matter the Wii U is looking like basically an X360, and even with an expensive controller they're probably going to sell it for a highly profitable $350 or something. Hell, I wished back in the day Nintendo had just put some nice, cheap, decent hardware in Wii. An X1600XT GPU was what I wished for at the time, would not have challenged PS360, but would have put out some competent visuls. If they had, you might even argue they might not be in this position of dead to the hardcore today. Instead they cheaped out.

Then you could argue Nintendo systematically almost created a hostile environment on it's platforms for third parties, in order to monopolize more with it's own high profit software. Many devs have spoken on this. Of course now Nintendo is signing a different tune with Wii U, but a cynic might question their motives to say the least.

Also, from what I know the Japanese software industry, where Nintendo first party is mostly, is known for almost slave labor conditions and low pay. I imagine lets say, Mario Kart Wii, being simple in gameplay, art etc, and likely built on the GC title base, cost Nintendo almost nothing to develop, but went on to create insane profits for them. The same would seem to apply to most of their Wii titles.

I disagree, to me Sony & Microsoft are listening to their existing customer base and trying to appeal to them, whereas Nintendo is trying to appeal to everyone.

? All I hear after E3 is, Microsoft only cares about casual gamers now, abandoned the hardcore only focusing on Kinect. And you're criticizing them for the opposite?

Too me they're even here. Sony and MS had the hardcore, then made a play for the casual with Move and Kinect. Nintendo was the reverse, had the casual, now making a play for the hardcore with Wii U. All 3 companies are basically doing the same thing, arguably the obvious thing.
 
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The nobility of any company isn't a worthwhile debate, so it'll end here. Irrespective of whether a company copies or invents or works towards ideals or is just trying to earn big bucks, this thread is about what Nintendo are doing and what gamers think of those choices and how that might pan out for Nintendo as a business.
 
You don't phrase yourself that way.


"Its like the people in this thread are obsessed with FPS and think that Nintendo should tailor the console to suit there desires for playing that one genre of game."

I barely play FPS, and I don't think any contributor to this thread is single-mindedly an FPS player.
When did you become multiple people? I was referring to the people who are constantly talking about COD and Ghost Recon like its the only thing the new controller can do. I how could you mistake that for anything else.

Years of experience of independent online services not delivering. Now I ask you the flip-question, what reason is there to trust that if left to the third parties to implement necessary features, you can be sure they'll deliver what's wanted? COD could probably be trusted to implement voice chat, for example, but maybe not party mechanics. And smaller titles like Dead Nations/Alien Breed could very well go the way of PSN.

They don't have to go back on their word, because their word hasn't offered any promises that they could renege on!

What does it matter whether or not they(3rd parties) will deliver? The point was that Nintendo themselves won't be implementing it globally. That was the only point I was making as far as that(online in games) goes.

One thing I'm curious about though will be the shop channel. Has anyone heard any news about what type of storage medium will come default in the system? I doubt they will still use a 512 MB SD card.

Also, I wonder if they will make it where you can access one channel on the TV and another on the controller.
 
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It most certainly wasn't, use the search, the chips were far too big to be just dieshrinks of GC chips, even with the added ARM-core included.

There can be any number of different reasons why the die sizes are larger than what they "should" be, but there being any significant extra logic in Wii dies is pretty much ruled out. Apple A4 is also huge for what's in there, but likewise they have some reason for it, whether manufacturing or something else.
 
The nobility of any company isn't a worthwhile debate, so it'll end here. Irrespective of whether a company copies or invents or works towards ideals or is just trying to earn big bucks, this thread is about what Nintendo are doing and what gamers think of those choices and how that might pan out for Nintendo as a business.

I'm interested in Nintendo's reason for not going with a standardised service.

I'm sure there are lots of people who couldn't give a damn about online, but I have a hard time believing that there significant numbers of people out there that would prefer a fractured, fragmented, inconsistent and less user friendly service to a standardised and comprehensive one. The tens of millions of "core gamers" paying for a Live Gold service make up a significant proportion of the PS360 "core gamer" userbase, and it's not inconceivable that more would use it if it were free. Likewise, there seem to be millions of active core gamers online with their PS3s, and given Sony's efforts to improve PSN it seems to be at odds with "core gamers" preferring the kind of thing Nintendo are possibly (or probably) talking about.

Put simply, I don't think Nintendo's decisions are customer focused in this regard, meaning they are probably based on capability or what publishers are prepared to support.
 
. At $250 Nintendo must have made about $200 per system, while Sony and MS where putting high end hardware and losing money in theirs.

Haha, no.
Sorry, that's really, really far off from reality.

A Wii + wimote + nunchuck + bundled game has never cost $50 to make. It's just impossible.
 
I disagree, to me Sony & Microsoft are listening to their existing customer base and trying to appeal to them, whereas Nintendo is trying to appeal to everyone.

If you read Miyamoto's interviews, it seems clear that Nintendo went for the Wii because he (and likely other people at Nintendo) couldn't share the result of his work with his whole family (Miyamoto mentions his parents).

To me that's a major difference, Nintendo love games and want to share that, Microsoft and Sony see a market and want to make a lot of money out of it.

(Obviously Nintendo is here to make money too, noone would like to lose money even doing

Nintendo sees itself as an entertainment company and wants to bring value to everyone from day one. This can been seen by the price point and lack of HD in Wii. You shouldn't need a HDTV or hi-end graphics to enjoy gaming. In the same vein, you shouldn't need voice chat or even online to have fun.

MS and Sony see their systems as a connected platform for their ecosystems, especially MS. That's why you see more utility/tool pitch from them.

This is why I separate voice chat into a comms tool vs an in-game interation feature. I think Nintendo is not wrong per se. But we expect more info from them since we only have a glimpse of the system and controller ideas so far. At this point, it looks like the 3DS online experience may be the baseline ? Unified friends list + friends code. Will it be able to run more than one program at the same time like 3DS ? If so, I think some one else can operate a VoIP service.
 
FWIW...

Valve interested in Wii U; 'It fits better into our scalability model,' says Newell:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/22/valve-interested-in-wii-u-it-fits-better-into-our-scalability/

"Wii U seems to be a lot more powerful than the previous generation," he told Joystiq. "It sort of fits better into the scalability in terms of graphics performance and CPU performance, so I think it'll be a lot easier for us to fit it into our scalability model." Valve has yet to release any of its games on a Nintendo console, though Gabe told us, "We've always loved Nintendo." He also pointed out that Valve has been slowly transitioning from the PC to console counterparts, starting with Xbox 360 and more recently moving to the PlayStation 3 in a major way with Steam getting ported to Sony's console.

And it looks like Nintendo may be next, as Newell restated, "Now it's a lot easier to look at Wii U and have it fit within that framework." As for us, we're most excited to see what Valve might do with the WiiPad.
 
This is why Nintendo needs to treat Newell well...
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/23/newell-sees-no-distinction-between-games-and-educational-games/

After rolling a short clip of the game for audience members, Newell went on to profess, "There seems to be this distinction between games that are educational, and games that are going to be commercially successful. I'm not really sure I buy into that." Citing sales of Portal 2 as proof, Newell pointed out that Valve has seen "$165 million dollars in gross revenue" from the game since April 18. "We can do this. We can make educational, commercially successful games, which are gonna help us both on the game side and on the educational side." He reaffirmed this to me in an interview after the speech, saying, "I just don't believe in this distinction between games and educational games. A lot of times [the label] 'educational games' is a way of being an excuse for bad game design or poor production values."

Touchscreen controller + stylus is a wonderful tool for "educational" games for all ages. ^_^

EDIT: This should be in the 3DS thread, but since we are talking about social gaming and social graphs, GAF has a thread on StreetPass experience:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425715
 
So to get to the heart of the subthread about online, it appears that the point of contention boils down to whether or not all core gamers =online gamers. Some people seem to assume this a fact, as if the very definition of core gamer is wrapped up in online play.
I don't know what the exact answer is but I suspect the answer is no not all the time.
If the answer was clearly YES then it would be obvious that Nintendo must include unified online gaming features to attract the core.
If they are not including these features for core gamers,they are either ignorant,stupid,lazy, or perhaps have data to suggest not all gamers who play core games, require online features.
I'm guessing it's a matter of priorities, and resources vs payoff.
Even MS ,who is arguably one of the largest most advances software developers, has taken time to get it correct. And they have had many years head start on Nintendo.
So as a smaller more entertainment focused company(vs OS development) NIntendo is looking at where to spend it's more limited resources to get the most payoff.
 
Judging from what we've seen of the Wuu (thank you Shifty Geezer :D), it should fit nicely into the performance parameters of titles from Valve, especially if the system is equipped with 1 GB of RAM.

As for Valve games on the Wuu, I think it's certainly possible there could be some simplified version of Steam on the system, especially since Nintendo mentioned a network model based on letting developers do things "there own way". While a set of standards would be optimal a la Live, I could see a system that allows developers to develop their own "branch" (or channel maybe) in the network as being very proactive for developers to make their own communities, almost like PSN Home, except actually useful for finding news, updates, new games, etc.
 
So to get to the heart of the subthread about online, it appears that the point of contention boils down to whether or not all core gamers =online gamers. Some people seem to assume this a fact, as if the very definition of core gamer is wrapped up in online play.
I don't know what the exact answer is but I suspect the answer is no not all the time.
If the answer was clearly YES then it would be obvious that Nintendo must include unified online gaming features to attract the core.
If they are not including these features for core gamers,they are either ignorant,stupid,lazy, or perhaps have data to suggest not all gamers who play core games, require online features.
I'm guessing it's a matter of priorities, and resources vs payoff.
Even MS ,who is arguably one of the largest most advances software developers, has taken time to get it correct. And they have had many years head start on Nintendo.
So as a smaller more entertainment focused company(vs OS development) NIntendo is looking at where to spend it's more limited resources to get the most payoff.

I consider myself a core gamer (I've bought about 50-60 over this gen over several current gen platforms) but I do very little online gaming. I spent about 15 hours on COD:MW1&2, another 15-20 hours on KZ2 and maybe 10 hours spread across a plethora of games. With COD and KZ2, all that online time falls with 3 2-week periods.

I consider online gaming very monotonous even though I use to love military based FPSes on PC where over time I enjoyed going from max 32 to 64 to 150 on Joint Ops:Typhoon Rising with super huge maps. I kind of fell off with online gaming after Battlefield 2 on the PC when I migrated mostly over to console. My desire to online game never really migrated over with me.

Maybe its the concept of going from single player to multiplayer that bothers me, as it only highlights the act of going over the same handful of favorite maps doing the same thing over and over again. In my view the concept hasn't really changed all that much over the years.
 
So to get to the heart of the subthread about online, it appears that the point of contention boils down to whether or not all core gamers =online gamers. Some people seem to assume this a fact, as if the very definition of core gamer is wrapped up in online play.

I think some gamers -- 'specially 360 gamers and co-op gamers -- want the ability to voice chat while playing games. That is all.
 
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