How does that make a difference in regards to his point?
Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012
- Thread starter patsu
- Start date
How does that make a difference in regards to his point?
See this is why I would like to see some stats as to what gamers want,how gamers use their use their machines just to see for example how far NIntendo is off the mark. Do all "hardcore" gamers need cross game voice chat or MP? I don't and I consider myself a core gamer. Am I the minority?
To put some meat on the bones if this particular discussion I would like to use some actual examples.
What I would expect for WiiU online:
1.Gamer ID ,no brainer persistent across all games.
2. Gamer score of some sort like Trophies across all games. No brainer across multiplat games since it will already be done for the other version, IF Nintendo doesn't do it for their own games ,their just lazy.
3. WiiU shop channel to access game content from all publishers like demos and DLC. If they don't have one place to shop for all publishers it will be a huge let down IMO.
4. Netflix
5. Facebook and Twitter app maybe.
6.Browser
Where I think the flexibility part may come in to play. These could in some cases be clearly good IMO or questionable choices.
1. Requiring MP. Does every game have to have a MP portion? A lot of the most popular games focus mainly on the SP portion and have a tacked on MP.Their sales haven''t seemed to have been hurt as a result.
Mass Effect,GTA, Red Dead,Uncharted, God of War,Batman, Bioshock, Dead Space, Assassins Creed, Metal Gear,Elder Scrolls,Fallout,Mario Galaxy,Zelda. etc
Why are these devs making mainly SP games,because they don't know what gamers want?
2. Features, like voice chat. I agree that if you targeting the kind of core gamer that loves Halo, GEOW online you should have those MP features,but each game requires a different set of features, Let devs focus their resources on what they know the gamers want not on what they might not care about. Do you need in game voice chat playing every type of game?
3. Integration of social media in all games would be nice but not sure how difficult it would be.Being able to upload in game stats to your Facebook page with one click or pause game and Tweet something quickly.
4. SALES,PROMOTIONS, etc . Allow publishers to dicate their own deals with consumer.
This is where flexibility would clearly be a good thing IMO.
5. Publishers own channel. Allow a space for each publisher to connect directly to the consumer. Without having to go through Nintendo,allows them to be more agile to respond to consumer feedback and go beyond what Nintendo or other publishers are offering.
6. I'm almost 100% certain we won't see Nintendo offering their own media content delivery service for things like videos or music where you don't have to commit to a monthly fee like Netflix. IMO this could be a big mistake. It just gives the consumer an excuse to turn off your machine and turn on the competitors.
I had more but have forgotten.
That's not a matter of core gaming, but social gaming. Do you have a number of friends, online or RL, that you want to regularly game with? If so, cross-game chat is extremely valued to allow you to meet up etc. eg. I can switch on my PS3 and play whatever I want when one friend comes on and starts chatting as he plays a different game until third friend comes on, says hello, and we quit our individual games to play the coop game we were meeting up for. The current limited version in PSN is sending messages, which means interrupting the game, often resulting in death in an online game like Warhawk, and which can be easily missed. I'll send a message, wait a few minutes doing absolute nothing, decide friend hasn't seen the message and load up Booty, only to get a message saying sure, let's play something... It's tedious and very last-century!
That's not a part of an online experience and not anything anyone here is advocating, I'm sure.
Any game you play with other people, especially friends, yes. And leaving it to devs can be disastrous. Warhawk's was a mess. Alien Breed didn't have it. Dead Nations launched without it. You don't get this problem on Live with a unified voice-chat, and Sony have changed up a gear for Vita at least.
That one could probably be left to third parties to implement. It just needs a system account setting for FB account for games to link to.
That's not really part of a network infrastructure.
Seems okay, but then you can get complex experiences that add confusion rather than value. A unified store makes it much easier to locate stuff you want. Horses for courses.
Nintendo have backtracked massively on their "we're only interested in games" stance since Wii's launch. It doesn't make sense for them to roll out their own media content when there's already loads of competition, but they could easily support portals for other media services for a negotiated slice. Or just provide a browser and make money only on hardware and software.
All good points.
Get party management right first. It's more important than voice chat.
When party management is working, I don't need to utter a word to coordinate joining. It's also useful for playing with people who don't know English or your native language. When playing RFOM, the party leader would notice who has signed in, send an invite, and we are all in one game. Better yet if the party can be persistent. In Killzone, the squad/party capability is more limited. If the platform holder works with the developers to enforce basic party features, then it should be ok. OTOH, some games like DUST514 and Demon's Souls would want their own ways to manage their gaming experience.
System voice + text chat can be in one channel while the in-game chat occupies other channels.
When party management is working, I don't need to utter a word to coordinate joining. It's also useful for playing with people who don't know English or your native language. When playing RFOM, the party leader would notice who has signed in, send an invite, and we are all in one game. Better yet if the party can be persistent. In Killzone, the squad/party capability is more limited. If the platform holder works with the developers to enforce basic party features, then it should be ok. OTOH, some games like DUST514 and Demon's Souls would want their own ways to manage their gaming experience.
System voice + text chat can be in one channel while the in-game chat occupies other channels.
Well screw limited user lists that are bound to the platform, give me facebook,gmail,messenger whatever contacts in my friendslist. Let the "network sort out if i can play with them.
And i don´t give a damn about all the stats, the only thing i need is easy online from the games, it doesn´t have to be "one size fits all", it just have to fit the games.
Burnout is a maginificiant example.
And i don´t give a damn about all the stats, the only thing i need is easy online from the games, it doesn´t have to be "one size fits all", it just have to fit the games.
Burnout is a maginificiant example.
As a matter of fact, my XMB friends list is full now. ^_^
I would want to keep my gaming list separate from my IM, Facebook and work list.
If Nintendo think hard enough, there are probably many ways to do this. e.g., The persistent XMB chatroom can be "published" to unlimited number of people. Have been using it to hook up with Gaffers even though I can't add them to my friends list anymore. We can start a game from there.
I would want to keep my gaming list separate from my IM, Facebook and work list.
If Nintendo think hard enough, there are probably many ways to do this. e.g., The persistent XMB chatroom can be "published" to unlimited number of people. Have been using it to hook up with Gaffers even though I can't add them to my friends list anymore. We can start a game from there.
All of you seem to be forgetting one major point. Nintendo doesn't want to do this. They have said it again and again that online is not important to them. Their goal with the console is to get people together in the same room just like with the Wii. Myamoto reiterated this.
"What my passion is, or really what I want to do, is to really try to blaze a trail for where video games can go in the future, especially, right now, in looking at Wii U. Obviously the Wii was a device that was something most people had in their living room, and that's definitely what we want Wii U to be, and to be a device that everyone in the household can interact with. But at the same time, we wanted to unite that concept with more traditional video game experiences and bring those together on a single console.
When I'm thinking about that, I'm also working very hard on Skyward Sword, playing the game every day, rewriting the text, changing enemy abilities and things like that. So I'm having a lot of fun kind of working on the minute details of games as well. And sometimes it feels like, when I'm working kind of at that more granular level, that it's really kind of taking advantage of where my real skill lies. So it's a lot of fun. "
All of this debating about there online features is unintelligible and a waste of time. They don't care about online anymore than they did before because they're intentions and goals lie elsewhere. It will likely be handled just as it was on the Wii, maybe with a registered online profile added but they will more than likely still use friend codes and leave hosting and whatnot up to the individual companies.
Seriously why are people begging for a infrastructure like Microsoft and Sony consoles? If you want a online system like Sony then use Sony's. If you want a system like Microsoft then use Microsoft's console.
One of the things I like the most about Nintendo's strategy is that they are not trying to copy everyone else. I hope it stays that way.
Here's what Iwata said, "As for social networks, after examining the penetration and adoption rate of social networking services like Facebook, etc., we've come to the conclusion that we are no longer in a period where we cannot have any connection at all with social networking services.
Rather, I think we've come to an era where it's important to consider how the social graph of the social networking services can work in conjunction with something like a video game platform.
So, once we get to a point where we're able to talk more concretely about our online plans, I think that once you hear what we'll have to say, you'll feel that Nintendo has a policy of adapting itself to changes in the network environment in a flexible fashion rather than the one of sticking to a rigid mechanism, or perhaps you'll notice that we have found ways to take advantage of these types of features like VoIP and social networking, where our systems have been seen as being weak in the past. However, unfortunately, we won't be able to share anything concrete today."
I don't think Nintendo will cut network services at this point. They won't be able to copy Apple, Sony and Microsoft even if they want to. But they also don't have to copy. There are many ways to design an online gaming framework. They can be implemented by third parties if Nintendo wish.
Rather, I think we've come to an era where it's important to consider how the social graph of the social networking services can work in conjunction with something like a video game platform.
So, once we get to a point where we're able to talk more concretely about our online plans, I think that once you hear what we'll have to say, you'll feel that Nintendo has a policy of adapting itself to changes in the network environment in a flexible fashion rather than the one of sticking to a rigid mechanism, or perhaps you'll notice that we have found ways to take advantage of these types of features like VoIP and social networking, where our systems have been seen as being weak in the past. However, unfortunately, we won't be able to share anything concrete today."
I don't think Nintendo will cut network services at this point. They won't be able to copy Apple, Sony and Microsoft even if they want to. But they also don't have to copy. There are many ways to design an online gaming framework. They can be implemented by third parties if Nintendo wish.
What you say here is more reasonable but I don't see Nintendo ever going third party for something like this. They are likely going to create there on way. One that is not being done or is no longer in use.
Like what ? VoIP is not the focus. It can be done by the devs if Nintendo want. IMHO, Iwata is correct in identifying the social graph first. Things like groups, party, relationships between gamers are more important. Certainly it may be easier if Nintendo offers VoIP for everyone, but it should not wag the dog.
They have friends code and street pass. They may experiment more in WiiU.
They have friends code and street pass. They may experiment more in WiiU.
No-one's begging. We're explaining how some people value the online experience and if Nintendo want those customers they need to cater to their needs. If they want to turn customers away, they are of course free to ignore their requirements, but it's Nintendo who said they wanted to net the core gamer this time.
That's a really silly attitude. If someone somewhere else has a good idea that'd improve your service/product, it's better to include it than shun it just to be different.
Your post reads, "Nintendo should do whatever they want without regard for the industry, because they are free-thinkers. If people don't like what Nintendo do, they are free to buy MS or Sony or Apple or PC." That's a great attitude for avant garde artists who don't care about mainstreaming their work to make a living, but it's a lousy approach for big business that needs people to not choose the competition!
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I agree. VoiP is nice and all, but not a real deal breaker I think. Even if its just for not having to mute half the players when you enter a game
The most important is probably having a single account per user. So no more multiple friend codes etc. That just makes it very hard to add people. Second would be to see what your friends are playing and the possibility to invite them.
Just those 3 things would already make for quite a solid online platform for most people I think.
The most important is probably having a single account per user. So no more multiple friend codes etc. That just makes it very hard to add people. Second would be to see what your friends are playing and the possibility to invite them.
Just those 3 things would already make for quite a solid online platform for most people I think.
I don't see how these can be viewed independently. Have you never joined up with a friend in an online coop game like Dead Nations and then walked around in silence with no communication for strategies or just to share the enjoyment of the game with jokes and smack-talk etc.? Or played a larger game like Warhawk and wanted to coordinate tactics to capture a flag or something, only to be unable to because there's no communication system? I have, and it's rubbish!
I think there are two types of chat that people experience. One is the wide-open chatter of foul-mouthed kids gloating and wingeing. The other is chatting with your friends. The former is no loss, and soloing in a game like Warhawk I don't lament the silence because I'm doing my own thing. In such games the other players are basically just playing sophisticated bots, but the experience is essentially a solo one. In the latter case, the experience is a social one only enabled by chat and pretty much destroyed by silence. Perhaps the best solution is online cross-application chat for a party of friends, with non-party chat automatically muted and the option to opt in to wider chat for those who like to hear foul mouthed kids gloating/wingeing. I can tell you now though, any console that doesn't provide online chat in games would never get bought by me!
But if it's not a standard option that Nintendo provides, there's no guarantee a game that needs it will implement it well. Whereas if Nintendo provide the VoiP engine that games can just plug into, it'll be there for games that need it, and optionally excluded by those that don't want. If Nintendo wash their hands of this service (among others) then some games will have crap implementations that make for a more frustrating, less enjoyable experience for gamers. I don't see how anyone can be in favour of that! A set of core network functions is not the same as straight-jacketting developers into a particular way of doing things, and various freedoms can still be accommodated in a way something like Live may not do (publishers' own webshops and stuff) without giving up on robust network structures that make the whole job of meeting and playing online seamless and convenient.
I agree. But looking from another perspective, if there are common "tasks" you need to discuss over voice chat, some of them can also be structured and implemented in-game. e.g., Strategizing can now be implemented as annotated touchscreen maps on WiiU.
Voice chat is natural for a homogeneous group. Nintendo can certainly offer it for all developers. In my view, it should be above the fundamental systems. In RFOM, this was what happened:
Dude A: "They are at the sniper wall"
Dude B: "WHICH sniper wall ?"
Dude A: "The West one"
Dude B: "[Pause] Which way is West ?" (The map was orientated differently. There was no sniper wall in the west; assuming top is north)
If Nintendo also focus on WiiU pad usage, it can make a difference to people playing together without a common language. Many people already do talk in-game today. I play with Asians and Europeans in late evenings. Most of the time, I have no clue what they were saying. ^_^ It would also be useful for some of the handicappeds.
Other times, I hear them talk about their daily chores.
But with a closedly knitted group, voice chat definitely excel because of friendship. We will forgive the background TV noise, crying baby, barking dog, and other nonsenses. Jokes in the lobby are always the best though. Quick shoutout of enemy location is also valuable (if you understand the language)
EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I don't hate voice chat. I just think more can be done first. In my case, I turned off voice chat permanently since I play in the office most of the time -- even with Gaffers. At home, I usually game late. Also turned off voice chat to keep noise level down. I can hear folks, but they can't hear me. ^_^
Voice chat is natural for a homogeneous group. Nintendo can certainly offer it for all developers. In my view, it should be above the fundamental systems. In RFOM, this was what happened:
Dude A: "They are at the sniper wall"
Dude B: "WHICH sniper wall ?"
Dude A: "The West one"
Dude B: "[Pause] Which way is West ?" (The map was orientated differently. There was no sniper wall in the west; assuming top is north)
If Nintendo also focus on WiiU pad usage, it can make a difference to people playing together without a common language. Many people already do talk in-game today. I play with Asians and Europeans in late evenings. Most of the time, I have no clue what they were saying. ^_^ It would also be useful for some of the handicappeds.
Other times, I hear them talk about their daily chores.
But with a closedly knitted group, voice chat definitely excel because of friendship. We will forgive the background TV noise, crying baby, barking dog, and other nonsenses. Jokes in the lobby are always the best though. Quick shoutout of enemy location is also valuable (if you understand the language)
EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I don't hate voice chat. I just think more can be done first. In my case, I turned off voice chat permanently since I play in the office most of the time -- even with Gaffers. At home, I usually game late. Also turned off voice chat to keep noise level down. I can hear folks, but they can't hear me. ^_^
Yesh, seems that we may be getting DQX on the Wii U. If they can make that a launch title then the Wii U will become will put the Wii sold out events to shame.
I'm still waiting to see more "good" developers on the system. When I say good, EA, Ubisoft, and Activision are never a feature. Come on Mistwalker and Monolith Soft.
I'm still waiting to see more "good" developers on the system. When I say good, EA, Ubisoft, and Activision are never a feature. Come on Mistwalker and Monolith Soft.
Similar threads
