Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

Yikes I hope not, then you end up with psn and all the issues Shifty described. Better to force a complete feature set then you get it all working seamlessly across all games which nowadays is what people want. I'm a big stickler going forwards on the quality of the software experience, and a psn type experience simply won't cut it for next gen. Nintendo needs to partner with someone to help them out to build and support their new online, and then just copy the XBLive feature set verbatim. Nintendo won't be competing on hardware so their software experience, online included, needs to be a step forwards from XBlive, not a step back. If they leave it all up to individual developers then they are dead online before they even started.

Not really. PSN doesn't enforce any baseline online features (except for the PSN id). ^_^
It's the other end of the open-close curve.

I think Iwata already mentioned that he's more inclined towards an open network ecosystem.

EDIT: e.g., It looks like the Vita ecosystem will have a thicker stack (voice chat, Near, Live area), but still open for developers to roll their own.
 
I think Iwata already mentioned that he's more inclined towards an open network ecosystem.

Well as long as it's consistent and standardized across everything, otherwise I don't think they will be able to get female users to accept an online system that is as fragmented as psn. I presume they are smart enough to see how females are fast becoming more important than men when it comes to online in general (not just games, but the entire ecosystem) due to them slowly but surely making more income, being more educated, being willing to spend more on quality stuff, being heavily involved in social networking, and ultimately in many cases them being the ones that decide on when purchases happen. So it's my personal opinion that an open setup in such a situation is a huge mistake that will handicap Nintendo severely when facing something unified and consistent like XBLive, and even more so come next gen when presumably Microsoft's ecosystem will not only be unified on the console as it is now but unified across products and platforms. If Apple as well decides to make a more serious play for the tv one day then I think Nintendo, or anyone for that matter with a poorly implemented inconsistent and fragmented online world will simply get pushed to the side.

Me and you have posted on this kinda stuff before and we are largely polar opposites when it comes to how the online world should be implemented, so we'll have to see what happens. But I'll happily go on record now saying that if they go the psn method then Nintendo online is doa, Microsoft and Apple will eat them alive.
 
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110608qa/02.html

Regarding online experiences, what are you thinking? Whether it's VoIP*, social or open approaches, what are you planning for your online approach?

Iwata:

To start, I'll have to say that I don't have any materials with me today that can illustrate precisely what our online environment will be like, but I can speak generally about the direction that we are moving in.

I think, in general, the online environment is changing quite rapidly.

So, what I have come to feel lately is that the idea of saying, "we are going to create this style of online structure and that we would like you, the developers, to fit into the online structure that we are creating" is perhaps already out-of-date.

I think that Nintendo's past console business has often included this idea of a set and fixed online structure. So, I think that, going forward, the question is really to what degree Nintendo can create a more flexible system for its consoles.

And, what we found at this point is that, as we discuss the online structure with different publishers, the things that the different publishers want to do are in fact seemingly rather different.

Our current direction is how we can take the desires of the third parties and create a system that's flexible enough to enable them to do the types of things that they might want to do.

So, for example with the question of VoIP, I think then what we would like to do is work with them on how to enable them to do that. But, what we're not going to do is to consider as prerequisite conditions that every game includes features like that because obviously there are some developers who may not want to do that.

As for social networks, after examining the penetration and adoption rate of social networking services like Facebook, etc., we've come to the conclusion that we are no longer in a period where we cannot have any connection at all with social networking services.

Rather, I think we've come to an era where it's important to consider how the social graph of the social networking services can work in conjunction with something like a video game platform.

So, once we get to a point where we're able to talk more concretely about our online plans, I think that once you hear what we'll have to say, you'll feel that Nintendo has a policy of adapting itself to changes in the network environment in a flexible fashion rather than the one of sticking to a rigid mechanism, or perhaps you'll notice that we have found ways to take advantage of these types of features like VoIP and social networking, where our systems have been seen as being weak in the past. However, unfortunately, we won't be able to share anything concrete today.

It probably won't be entirely consistent, but it may not need to be hard-to-use either. Afterall, women around the world [strike]figured out how to use[/strike] embrace the world wide web.
 
It probably won't be entirely consistent, but it may not need to be hard-to-use either. Afterall, women around the world [strike]figured out how to use[/strike] embrace the world wide web.

No one is implying that they are dumb, but given a choice of something that is easier and more consistent across their computer, phone and tv compared to something that isn't, the ladies will choose the former. It's guys that are more willing to deal with issues but they are becoming less and less important as time goes on anyways.

That article you linked is way too vague to come to any conclusion of wtf they are doing, which in and of itself is kinda troubling to be honest considering how behind they are to Microsoft and Apple already.
 
Wrt launch titles, I agree it would be ideal to have N do what N does best - Pikmin, Elebits, or Mario... the real obvious titles for this launch are the Wii's golden franchises: Mario Party, WarioWare, and maybe... Cooking Mama? ...seem like ideal launch titles; easy to develop, touch-screen friendly, hugely motivating to N's core demo...

Btw I think I rolled a couple series like Cooking Mama whicg aren't 1st-party N titles, but you get my drift...
 
It's not all rosy. Seen Japan sales lately? Wii is selling down at ~6-7k per week, consistently. That's almost nonexistent sales. Nintendo might literally be shipping 100k a quarter to one of the big 3 videogame markets. That's disastrous. 360 sells 2-3k per week in Japan! And it's not "saturation" because Wii Japan LTD is around 11m, where PS2 sold more like 20m.

Have you seen recent sales? http://www.vgchartz.com/

I see Wii +50% above its next competitor in the last week.

Factually, this looks very unlikely at this point. Wii is currently at 86m shipped while PS2 is at close to 150m I believe. But the Wii's sales are hitting a cliff. With it's successor the Wii u coming soon which will likely only worsen the decline. I looked up the last fiscal years Wii shipments, 2009=25.9, 2010=20.5m, 2011, 15.1m, 2012, projected 13m, but I dont think they will hit that, probably not even close, in 2011 they had projected 18m. And here's April-June 2011 shipments: 360, 2.7m, PS3, 2.1m, Wii, 1.36.

They are on track to hit 100m units before PS2 did(5 years 9 months IIRC), so the data would show that its selling faster and thus would end up with more units sold. That is the solid data. Perhaps it is your opinion that Wii sales are going to fall off a cliff soon, but IMO large price drops coming with the WiiU launch and controller/game compatiblity will probably increase sales.
 
Ninja Nintendo's sales already have fallen off a cliff in Japan. The other regions are okay but Nintendo's systems historically fall off a a cliff once their 1st party devs move on to the next system. It's not going to reach 150 million. It will probably wind up in the 110 million range.
 
Have you seen recent sales? http://www.vgchartz.com/

I see Wii +50% above its next competitor in the last week.



They are on track to hit 100m units before PS2 did(5 years 9 months IIRC), so the data would show that its selling faster and thus would end up with more units sold. That is the solid data. Perhaps it is your opinion that Wii sales are going to fall off a cliff soon, but IMO large price drops coming with the WiiU launch and controller/game compatiblity will probably increase sales.

vgachartz threw some darts at a board and wii came up big this week I guess. You need a block of salt to swallow their numbers until they correct with real data. Their weekly numbers are someones guess (yes really).
 
They are on track to hit 100m units before PS2 did(5 years 9 months IIRC), so the data would show that its selling faster and thus would end up with more units sold.

PS2 didn't have a worldwide launch, so the comparison numbers should always be launch aligned, instead of comparing WW launch to a launch with first 6 months of Japan only.

I do think the recent price cut will help the Wii, but PS2 is going to be safe with its numbers.
 
vgachartz threw some darts at a board and wii came up big this week I guess. You need a block of salt to swallow their numbers until they correct with real data. Their weekly numbers are someones guess (yes really).

Heh yeah, I always wondered how accurate they were, cant seem to find any sources for them. We'll see the real value of the Wii price cut in NPDs june numbers, since I believe only that last week of may caught the price cut. If VGs numbers are anywhere near accurate though, they went from being ~20 percent behind the lead to being 50% ahead from the price cut.
 
Just supports my view Wuu network gaming will be rubbish. :( They need to stop thinking about what the developers want and think about what the consumers want. There's been 10 years of online gaming on the other platforms with valuable lessons to learn, but it sounds like Nintendo are almost ignoring all that. Things like VoiP don't have to be mandated for every online game, but you do need a solid implementation that'll always work and fit in with what users want. For years we've been badgering Sony to get cross-app chat working in PS3. They've merrily ignored us, but at least they've added it to Vita. Both MS and Sony have seen it's a necessary feature for a social experience, and yet Nintendo aren't going to support it?!
 
Just supports my view Wuu network gaming will be rubbish. :( They need to stop thinking about what the developers want and think about what the consumers want. There's been 10 years of online gaming on the other platforms with valuable lessons to learn, but it sounds like Nintendo are almost ignoring all that. Things like VoiP don't have to be mandated for every online game, but you do need a solid implementation that'll always work and fit in with what users want. For years we've been badgering Sony to get cross-app chat working in PS3. They've merrily ignored us, but at least they've added it to Vita. Both MS and Sony have seen it's a necessary feature for a social experience, and yet Nintendo aren't going to support it?!

Of course they are going to be behind, and the details will become clear later (and will change over time).
How much that will affect their sales is the real question. I don't think anyone questions that the Wii is the absolute lower bound of net functionality, yet that hasn't stopped its success.

How many are really interested in socializing over their game console anyway?
How many play online games on their consoles in a very organized manner?
There is no question that these people exist, but again the relevant question is how limitations in these areas affect sales. I'll contend that they have only a minor impact on overall sales, much lower than, say, price, game title line-up, launch date, et cetera. Just another factor among many, and not too high on the list.
 
Just supports my view Wuu network gaming will be rubbish. :( They need to stop thinking about what the developers want and think about what the consumers want.

Maybe what the devs are telling them is based on the feedback the devs are getting from the consumers?
One thing I've wanted to see are stats about peoples playing habits. Actual facts taken from data publishers get from our boxes being connected as they have been for this past gen.
What do people really do on their consoles, how many people actually play online all the time,what kind of time are people spending on MP vs SP portion of games, just as some examples.
Let's face it we all tend to personalize these discussions and see what should exist as we see the discussion through our prism.
 
Of course they are going to be behind, and the details will become clear later (and will change over time).
How much that will affect their sales is the real question. I don't think anyone questions that the Wii is the absolute lower bound of net functionality, yet that hasn't stopped its success.
Wii was never targeting online gamers. It's not trying to appeal to the COD crowd. Nintendo have said they are gunning for the core again with Wuu, which requires a decent online experience.

How many are really interested in socializing over their game console anyway?
What makes you question that people don't? Social gaming is common. People socialising is common. Meeting up to watch a movie, go out for a meal, play some sport, are all accomplished with social tools. Unless you feel computer games are the sole prerogative of lonely people just wanting to play in isolation, it's quite clear that supporting sociable gaming is necessary to reach a wider audience. Wii and Kinect are promoting sociable gaming. People on PSN are complaining about the lack of sociable features, and people on Live brag about them. So again, what makes you think no-one wants to share their computer entertainments with other people?

How many play online games on their consoles in a very organized manner?
If their console doesn't support it, they won't use it, but that doesn't mean they don't want it! Prior to digital mobiles, who'd have thought people would want to send short text messages to each other? Ignoring what people do or don't do now, we can look at human's as a species and see its requirements. Sociability is a very important one. Gaming has long been the limited domain of kids in bedrooms on their own because we couldn't do better, but that's been changing over the years. Nintendo would be foolish to have capitalised on that aspect of people with Wii only to ignore it with Wuu.
 
I'm just going by the Reggie interview where he talked online priorities.

He mentioned the importance of having things like Netflix and social media but in terms of game devs they said they all wanted to do different things. I'm not sure either how they are going to incorporate and integrate everything.

Well the way they talked about the tablet and console at E3 makes it seem like they want to make the WiiU a consistent and full-featured multimedia experience. The motion control was their big thing with the Wii but now it looks like they're hoping to leapfrog past the competition in terms of online support by also making it a good multimedia box.

So if they make it this wonderful netflix/webbrowsing/play-zelda-on-your-tablet machine but then you have simple things like cross-game voice chat or other features not being universally supported across multiple games, then I don't who they can market the system to. You can't sell it only as a home theater PC and if it's online system has less features than the xbox 1, then the hardcore audience will be turned off by that especially when Microsoft starts revealing some details about how the next xbox will be integrated with your phone and Windows at the next E3. Despite their success, Nintendo's had a bonfire lit under their asses as far catching up to a lot of the software features that the other two console companies focused on so they can't afford to give too much flexibility to the developers.
 
Well the way they talked about the tablet and console at E3 makes it seem like they want to make the WiiU a consistent and full-featured multimedia experience. The motion control was their big thing with the Wii but now it looks like they're hoping to leapfrog past the competition in terms of online support by also making it a good multimedia box.

So if they make it this wonderful netflix/webbrowsing/play-zelda-on-your-tablet machine but then you have simple things like cross-game voice chat or other features not being universally supported across multiple games, then I don't who they can market the system to. You can't sell it only as a home theater PC and if it's online system has less features than the xbox 1, then the hardcore audience will be turned off by that especially when Microsoft starts revealing some details about how the next xbox will be integrated with your phone and Windows at the next E3. Despite their success, Nintendo's had a bonfire lit under their asses as far catching up to a lot of the software features that the other two console companies focused on so they can't afford to give too much flexibility to the developers.

Sounds like they are selling the system as itself like they always have. Nintendo has never been about copying what popular or what others do. If everybody and there mom weren't crying for HD this console would probably be SD.

No current business plan is going to help you figure out what Nintendo is going to do because they are going to make there own. Specuating how they are going to online is pointless. They probably want do it much differently than they did with the Wii. They may have a single unifying screen name across games at best. The last Nintendo had to say about online was that it wasn't that important to them. They featured all of the demos playing in a living room just like the Wii so I expect that they are still focusing on getting people together in the house and having them play face to face.

The online is really a mute point to me. I'm more interested in how they will manage third parties. I'm hoping they will finally be aggressive in getting people to make game with effort for the console unlike how they were with the Wii. Nintendo made this console to get developers to produce better results but I don't see that happening with the hands off approach and the dev limitation they have.
 
It has 48 (dual-issue) Vec4+Scalar + Interpolator ALU "sets" IIRC, hard to compare directly to the current VLIW architecture
Well it's not that hard. 3 16-wide SIMDs (with tmu arrangement like r600, so 16 tmus), the biggest difference is that r600 can run 5 different instructions whereas xenos only 2 (1 4-wide + 1 scalar). But in terms of max theoretical throughput it's the same (I'm neglecting the separate interpolators here). A 4 simd Turks/Redwood chip should in any case be quite a bit superior (at similar clock), even 3 simds should probably beat that (only 12 tmus, no separate interpolator but vastly superior if you don't have shaders processing everything as vec4).
 
I was just reading some reviews of Ocarina of Time on the 3DS. Most reviewers like the new motion control:

Gyroscope aiming is deceptively useful. At first glance, it's a useless mechanic that disrupts the 3D effect. However using this method is so intuitive that you'll adjust over time. Considering I was often playing with the 3D off (outside of cutscenes), I ended up not even noticing most of the time.

http://uk.ds.ign.com/articles/117/1177020p2.html

Some items, like the slingshot and bow, even benefit from the addition of motion controls. Whipping out one of these weapons snaps the camera into a first-person view. All you have to do is angle your 3DS to set up your aim and fire. These controls are not only quicker than the circle pad (you can turn motion controls off in the options menu), but they are also a lot more fun. Plugging a target from across the room with an arrow is more satisfying when you physically aim the 3DS, and looking around your environment (a crucial skill in Ocarina of Time 3D) is much quicker and easier.

http://www.gamespot.com/3ds/action/the-legend-of-zelda-3d/review.html?tag=topslot;title;4

Aiming the bow and arrow, catapult, hookshot or boomerang can now optionally be done by moving the 3DS around instead of using the analogue stick. I found the new motion control method considerably more accurate.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-15-the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-review

With the WiiU's bigger screen, it should work even better. It will greatly enhance the experience of playing games like COD.
 
Just supports my view Wuu network gaming will be rubbish. :( They need to stop thinking about what the developers want and think about what the consumers want. There's been 10 years of online gaming on the other platforms with valuable lessons to learn, but it sounds like Nintendo are almost ignoring all that. Things like VoiP don't have to be mandated for every online game, but you do need a solid implementation that'll always work and fit in with what users want. For years we've been badgering Sony to get cross-app chat working in PS3. They've merrily ignored us, but at least they've added it to Vita. Both MS and Sony have seen it's a necessary feature for a social experience, and yet Nintendo aren't going to support it?!

They should consider both needs. I'll leave a post in the Vita thread to show Sony's new online environment. Nintendo starts from a clean slate, they may try to leapfrog the current PSN environment.

Also, I wonder how they will handle the friends code mechanism on WiiU.
 
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