Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[ninzel]

Ya I don't see the controller being an issue.
If anything with all that's built into it,there are more, not less options.
It could be an issue in terms of perception but in terms of actually being being able to make a traditional game work, I don't see a problem.
Going from 360 controller to Dual shock feels different, you adapt.
Going from Key+mouse is way different than console controllers,you adapt.
Going from console controller to Wiimote nunchuck is different,you adapt.

 

[function]

Sure, just remove the internal PSU and DVD drive to make room for the heatsink.

That looks disturbingly like a Wii sized (or thereabouts) exhaust fan on the back of the case.

Even with improved airflow and a bigger heatsink, I don't see how they can vastly increase the heat output of the system (beyond the Wii) while staying within the same kind of temperature and noise levels of the Wii and GC.

I don't see this being a match for a 45W llano, for example.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Going from 360 controller to Dual shock feels different, you adapt.
Going from Key+mouse is way different than console controllers,you adapt.
Going from console controller to Wiimote nunchuck is different,you adapt.

Except if adapting is hard and you have no need, you won't do it. eg. Move - I tried it briefly on MAG, hated it, and that was that. It may be great, but there's a learning curve that was not enjoyable and I'm not going to spend my fun time learning! If Nintendo want existing PS360 gamers and future PS360 buyers to get Wuu instead, they have to offer something that'll feel natural, either because people are used to it already (DS2 style controller) or because it's dead easy to pick up and play (Wiimote in traditional Wii games). Now I stand corrected on a lot of points regards the WuuPad and perhaps it won't be have ergonomic issues, but the idea "they will adapt" isn't a good starting point for a new venture, especially when there's lots of competition that doesn't need adapting to.

 

[Refreshment]

Except if adapting is hard and you have no need, you won't do it. eg. Move - I tried it briefly on MAG, hated it, and that was that. It may be great, but there's a learning curve that was not enjoyable and I'm not going to spend my fun time learning! If Nintendo want existing PS360 gamers and future PS360 buyers to get Wuu instead, they have to offer something that'll feel natural, either because people are used to it already (DS2 style controller) or because it's dead easy to pick up and play (Wiimote in traditional Wii games).

Understand your concerns Shifty, but in essence the WiiU pad features the same basic controller lay out of the competition with expanded functionality, the other are just ergo differences which are quickly overcomed. All of the next gen consoles will feature expanded functionality in the input so everyone will have to adapt.

Nintendo's problems are way bigger than that now. This is an idea that's not so easy to sell. It isn't as new, clever or will invoke a paradign shift like the Wii controller. Chances of competitor's rushing to include an equivalent in their controllers are lot less likely than what we had with Wii. Sony will try in similar ground but that's with the Vita and a PS console. The Wii concept was easy to grasp and understand.

Adding salt to the wound Nintendo did a terrible job at their conference.

 

[AlNom]

Even with improved airflow and a bigger heatsink, I don't see how they can vastly increase the heat output of the system (beyond the Wii) while staying within the same kind of temperature and noise levels of the Wii and GC.

Indeed.

Take for instance, Radeon HD 4770 - 80W power consumption at load. That thing has a fairly large cooling solution even at 40nm.

Or also consider the original Xbox 360 with twin 80mm fans. That thing is not quiet (I'm ignoring the DVD drive, as the fans could still be going strong after returning to the dashboard).

 

[Alucardx23]

Depending out the output chain works, yes there could be a technical limitation. There could also be performance limitations and reliability limitations. It could be a really flexible solution, but for all we know the system is built to pair wirelessly and transmit to exactly one tablet stream. I assume the GPU sees the screen like a second monitor on a PC. You have to start thinking about how many monitors is the video hardware built to drive at once? How many tablets is the wireless video transmission system built to broadcast to? Is the video stream compressed? Will compressing multiple streams introduce latency? Is there enough space in the wireless spectrum being used to support simultaneous broadcast to multiple controllers? What is the performance implication of needing to render a 3rd, 4th and 5th unique view in realtime?

Well Miyamoto statement on supporting multiple screens is this:

"Our basic premise is that you can use one with a system," said Miyamoto. "If we got to an idea of having multiple, it might be just more convenient for people to use their Nintendo 3DS and have a way to connect that. That being said, we are doing research about if someone brings their controller to their friend's house and they want to play together on Wii U to whether or not something like that would be possible."

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/220292/e3-2011-only-one-touchscreen-controller-per-wii-u/

I would like to know if the WiiU Pad receives a Wifi signal for video, and if it is a Wifi signal if it’s possible to send 4 signals at the same time, another thing I would like to know if the inputs are transmitted using Bluetooth just like the Wii controllers. Regarding performance limitations on rendering more than 1 screen, what’s the difference with Halo reach 4 player splitscreen and this? Just lower the graphics to support 4 screens, or is there something else to this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/digitalfoundry-halo-3-split-screen-analysis

 

[goonergaz]

seems to me Ninty have boxed themselves into a corner, I imagine most players playing against someone would prefer to play with the same controller...however the video bandwidth just wouldn't be possible* IMHO - maybe they will include the option to hard-wire? (yuk)

*I am no expert

 

[Refreshment]

If its plain Wifi, WHD,WHDI, WGA or something different altogether for transmitting the signal it hasn't been offcially disclosed yet. Regarding Halo Reach example, its not so much a power problem for rendering with the hardware, it has to do with bandwidth and lag incurred when transmitting to multiple displays.

 

[obonicus]

If Nintendo want to offer touch screen, they should just went with a 10" tablet like iPad, without buttons or stick.

That would have been completely off-message. They've always pointed out the importance of buttons for 'real' gaming experiences.

 

[patsu]

I still reckon Nintendo should develop a Kinect like device that they can use with Wiimote. I don't get why they need to win back the PS360 crowd. The majority of those crowd are way too invested in their respective console to drop $300 for this. I don't think the Wii crowd will like this the same way they embraced Wii.

Wiimote+ should be able to cover motion gaming needs. The pad has a camera, sensor bar and mic for other recognition use. Need to see what wireless tech they use though.

I think what's missing is the software. They face an uphill battle because people can't see the final product. Nintendo did not show enough content.

 

[Alucardx23]

Wether its plain Wifi, WHD,WHDI, WGA or something different altogether for transmitting the signal it hasn't been offcially disclosed yet. Regarding Halo Reach example, its not so much a power problem for rendering with the hardware, it has to do with bandwidth and lag incurred when transmitting to multiple displays.

And that’s what I would like to know then, if it is possible to transmit 4 signals at the same time without incurring in more lag than the first controller would have and if there is lag how much would it be, something acceptable like playing an online game or something more noticeable like the Onlive service for example, or if the 4 screens can be synced to be under the same lag so no screen has an advantage. I guess we have to wait for more information.

 

[patsu]

Today's games use too many buttons anyway IMO. The reason I don't play console games anymore, even those I haven't finished, is because I have trouble remembering and switching between different button layouts (and the differences in overall "feel" of turn rate and movement response in any first-person shooting game).

Yap. I think screen + dual sticks will become the norm for future core gaming. There are new games better played on a screen now, despite Wiimote+ and Move precision.

Also glad that they pick up a high storage disc media.

 

[pc999]

Take for instance, Radeon HD 4770 - 80W power consumption at load. That thing has a fairly large cooling solution even at 40nm.

A mobility 5830 uses 24 w

http://www.amd.com/us/products/note...radeon-5800/Pages/mobility-radeon-5800.aspx#3

 

[mczak]

That looks disturbingly like a Wii sized (or thereabouts) exhaust fan on the back of the case.

Even with improved airflow and a bigger heatsink, I don't see how they can vastly increase the heat output of the system (beyond the Wii) while staying within the same kind of temperature and noise levels of the Wii and GC.

The Wii is only using about 20W. I think maybe about twice that would be possible to cool quietly in a box of that size (if they've included some real power management it might not be a problem if at full load it would be a bit louder than the Wii probably).
Still, that would be only roughly half of what the current ps360 are using (both around 80W). Even accounting for possible more efficient cpu/gpu chips (better design) it's hard to believe it could be faster (though around same performance sounds doable).

 

[patsu]

Ya I don't see the controller being an issue.
If anything with all that's built into it,there are more, not less options.
It could be an issue in terms of perception but in terms of actually being being able to make a traditional game work, I don't see a problem.
Going from 360 controller to Dual shock feels different, you adapt.
Going from Key+mouse is way different than console controllers,you adapt.
Going from console controller to Wiimote nunchuck is different,you adapt.

Same here. THQ shipped hundred thousands uDraw pads last holiday with only one (?) game. It's "just" a tablet. Sales exceeded their expectation. Ninty's pad can do more.

The core gamers react to Wii U negatively because there are too many unknowns. They want to see proofs.

Nintendo does have some issues to work through at the same time.

 

[AlNom]

A mobility 5830 uses 24 w

http://www.amd.com/us/products/note...radeon-5800/Pages/mobility-radeon-5800.aspx#3

That's TDP i.e. heat. Anyways, what does the cooler look like? Also keep in mind that it is basically a 500MHz Juniper with DDR/GDDR3 instead of GDDR5.

 

[patsu]

Except if adapting is hard and you have no need, you won't do it. eg. Move - I tried it briefly on MAG, hated it, and that was that. It may be great, but there's a learning curve that was not enjoyable and I'm not going to spend my fun time learning! If Nintendo want existing PS360 gamers and future PS360 buyers to get Wuu instead, they have to offer something that'll feel natural, either because people are used to it already (DS2 style controller) or because it's dead easy to pick up and play (Wiimote in traditional Wii games). Now I stand corrected on a lot of points regards the WuuPad and perhaps it won't be have ergonomic issues, but the idea "they will adapt" isn't a good starting point for a new venture, especially when there's lots of competition that doesn't need adapting to.

Takes time to change people's behavior. For Ninty's next outing, the easiest way to address the core gamers is to show a classical controller game and use all the computing resources to only render to one 1080p screen.

Then, demo new controller schemes.

 

[Refreshment]

To answer your question correctly Nintendo has to at least comunicate what wireless video standar they are using, if any at all. But if you are asking if there's any afordable tech that allows that Halo Reach scenario your portraying right now, well some WHDI boxes output a full HD image with multiple audio channels for over 30 feet and from video comparisons i saw, there wasn't any perceptible lag, some specs claim less than 1 ms for an HD stream. Now, there are claims that set the WiiU pad resolution at WVGA standars. In that case the screen would be less than a quarter of an HD frame, aproximatly 20%.

So, for a quick reflex game like Reach it might not work perfectly but for other less demanding ones it very well can.

Like it was anticipated Nintendo is set right now in one WiiU pad per system. And that really works for most of the scearios they are envisioning. For, example local 4 player in a competitive FPS is out of vogue these days (with some devs not bothering with the option even), 2 local playing online is a comon case and that works with Nintendo current set up.

 

[patsu]

Bandwidth is only a problem if the game output a huge amount of data to the pad. It doesn't have to. The devs have control.

The most demanding use case is probably "kicked off TV" gaming. They should be able to find a good tech solution. People like Gaikai and OnLive did it with larger screen and likely smaller bandwidth.

For input latency, it's just controller input and touch info. Should be like Wiimote and Move.

 

[Refreshment]

The most demanding use case is probably "kicked off TV" gaming. They should be able to find a good tech solution. People like Gaikai and OnLive did it with larger screen and likely smaller bandwidth.

For input latency, it's just controller input and touch info. Should be like Wiimote and Move.

Likely scenario, since Nintendo says all Wii controlling methods are compatible.

What's cool about this, is that we can bet that next iterations of MS and Sony consoles will be able to transmit wireless video to the monitor or TV, so we are kind of geeting a preview with what Nintendo is doing.

Possibly EXCEPT Playstation Vita !

Go easy with me i didn't say hanhelds. But yea, learned about that the other day, what gives?