Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[AlNom]

I don't think he's replying directly to your comment but asking for your guess/prediction as to what could plausibly fit in a box that size.

Ah... well, then.

For starters, we're looking at a box that is essentially half of a 360 slim. The chips have to go underneath the drive as well, which will be a source for heat. Whether it's significant or not would be irrelevant considering the tighter confines and the reduction in air flow space.

Also keep in mind that the 360 Slim had a pretty huge heatsink block with a fan that blows directly out of the case. The thing can get pretty hot still too.

I'd look at mobile GPUs directly, but they only list TDP, not the actual power consumption, and that's not to say that cooling is actually good. One of the console requirements is that the box not sound crazy. Well, high end mobile GPUs and CPUs when running at load are going to be awfully loud in a laptop. My own 17" is pretty freaking loud and it's not even top-of-the-line (Core i7 Q720, Mobility 4650). So where do you draw the line? The thing has heating problems with less than 2 hours of straight up gaming - and the games I play don't even stress the 8 threads let alone four.

I think it's easier and better to do this prediction stuff by process of elimination rather than just spewing guesses based on active power consumption or perhaps even TDP or naively choosing the hottest hardware that fits into a laptop. Mind you, laptops have more complex cooling designs than just your run-of-the-mill heatsink and fan.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Well there's no question that it's more powerful than the PS3/360. Developers have said as much when asked about how they expect the WiiU ports of their games to look, the question is how much more powerful it is. I'm just hoping it's closer to modern PC specs than to PS360.

Uhh.. What? There's NO question? Sure there is, lots of us have questions. Most of these questions are supported by the fact that Nintendo themselves have offered no estimate of the power other than to say "It's 1080p" or it's "comparable".

Believing that it is more powerful than the PS360, or close to modern PC specs relies upon many things besides just your "hopes". It relies upon believing in something that is contrary to what we know. Such as the size limitations in regard to heat. Such as the problematic issue of price that follows with the inclusion of cutting-edge technology.

I also think that relying on developers comments is rather suspect since most of them don't even have devkits. Which, if I recall, was the excuse as to why it was justifiable for Nintendo to show PS360 footage and pretend it was WiiU footage.

 

[Rangers]

Well there's no question that it's more powerful than the PS3/360. Developers have said as much when asked about how they expect the WiiU ports of their games to look, the question is how much more powerful it is. I'm just hoping it's closer to modern PC specs than to PS360.

Well I dont want to bog down the thread with that debate again, but suffice to say imo nothing has been shown or any evidence given to indicate it's much more powerful than PS360. I'm preceding from that opinion. It's possible we could learn this isnt true in the future. For now my opinion is it's PS360 level.

 

[AlNom]

Uhh.. What? There's NO question? Sure there is, lots of us have questions. Most of these questions are supported by the fact that Nintendo themselves have offered no estimate of the power other than to say "It's 1080p" or it's "comparable".

FWIW, none of the demos I played at E3 were 1080p and neither are the press assets (native 720p no AA). So far it looks to me like 1080p "support".

 

[Ruskie]

FWIW, none of the demos I played at E3 were 1080p and neither are the press assets (native 720p no AA). So far it looks to me like 1080p "support".

Al,you think that chip doesn't support AA at all(would be pretty weird) or it doesn't have enough power to do it at 720p?I ask because,as Quaz said,even some games very simple in design and graphics run without AA.

 

[Arwin]

Hardware alone can never make or break something when Nintendo is concerned. Everything depends on what Nintendo does with it in software. God knows what the next brain training, Wii sports, Nintendogs or whatever will be.

 

[patsu]

Yap... no content to see whether it'd be a hit yet.

But I think it is possible that the iPad/iPhone momentum may groom a new breed of core gamers who swear by touch screen.... just like we have mouse-n-keyboard gamers, and dual stick gamers today. Nintendo and Sony may be in the fight for them. We will also see new touch screen innovation.

Totally forgot about their huge DS base. Touch gaming started with DS first, and broadened + enhanced by iOS devices. If Nintendo introduces content that appeals to their DS following, they stand to draw these users to the home console for follow-up experiences. Like DS, the pad supports stylus gaming. By adding iOS-like finger gaming, they also enhance their own portfolio of gaming experiences. Should be an interesting platform to watch.

 

[pc999]

Just go see the 40-45nm inexpensive laptops of today (eg Core Duo/Phenon II X3 or (X4?) + 5650)

They all are more powerful than a PS360, having much more stuff* and a different business model, they still cost 600€ or less.

Certainly is possible to have a small console by less than half of that specially if using custom chips.


Big high rez screen, battery, HDD, keyboard...

 

[AlNom]

Al,you think that chip doesn't support AA at all(would be pretty weird) or it doesn't have enough power to do it at 720p?I ask because,as Quaz said,even some games very simple in design and graphics run without AA.

Well, given the number of dynamic lights in the Zelda demo, I'd say it's highly likely that it's running a deferred setup.

As for the simple games running without AA... who knows. :s

 

[orangpelupa]

i have 14" notebook intel i5 and MobilityRadeon HD 5730. when playing games CPU will go to 100C and GPU under 70C.

The tiny fan on notebook will produce high pitch noise.
but in WiiU if using bigger fan, the pitch should come down.

 

[(((interference)))]

.

Now, im amazed that you can't think of a way to substitute sprint/duck on this controller. The ducking response in a shooter is not as critical as in a fighting game for example. So you could assign a quick flip downwards and the character ducks, shake reloads, slight tilt up while pushing the stick makes player run, hell double tap the stick and run is activated. Developers most of the time use a not so optimal control scheme. For example, if i had ducking and crouching in a game i could use 1 button instead of 2. The Withcer 2 used 3 buttons just to handle the sword when it could have easily used just 1.

Yeah - I dont think you play many competitive multiplayer shooters - motion controls for things like reloading,zoom, melee would not satisfy your average COD/BF player- there is a reason why you don't see Sixaxis controls for such controls on PS3 after all.

As for tilt controls, they'd quickly get annoying as you'd have to hold the controller in a certain way to prevent triggering anything by accident.

Your thumb - or more precisely the upper joint of your thumb.

Like I said: If you have a 3DS, try it. Takes only a few minutes to get used to. With the tip of your thumb resting on the stick, you can reach three of the four buttons (or directions on the dpad) with the joint. Pressing a button and actually moving the stick at the same time is tricky, only certain combinations work, but it's at the very least a lot faster than switching between sticks and buttons on a conventional controller.

I don't think so, I certainly can't do it with my PS3, 360 or PSP buttons with satisfactory accuracy.

And anyway their thumbstick/button layout is a sub optimal configuration, which is why MS and Sony don't use it- your thumb will block the face buttons and you cannot 'claw' or press the face buttons with your other fingers like you could if the thumbsticks were below the buttons.

Well, given the number of dynamic lights in the Zelda demo, I'd say it's highly likely that it's running a deferred setup.

As for the simple games running without AA... who knows. :s

Yeah, it's pretty shocking to see simple stuff like the new Super Mario Bros (which franky looks like an upscaled Wii game) running in 720p with no AA - not a good sign.

 

[lilbroK]

How is this for creative use of the controller?

http://gamrtv.vgchartz.com/video/1573/ghost-recon-online-wii-u-trailer/

I like being able to see a map without having to enter a menu in game and getting shot while looking.

 

[obonicus]

I'm not sure how creative that is -- putting a map on the second screen is something we've seen on the DS for years. It generally works pretty well, too.

 

[AlNom]

It was even there on Gamecube (Splinter Cell).

 

[Brad Grenz]

How is this for creative use of the controller?

http://gamrtv.vgchartz.com/video/1573/ghost-recon-online-wii-u-trailer/

I like being able to see a map without having to enter a menu in game and getting shot while looking.

I think this kind of thing could prove to be detrimental to games, and not a benefit. There's this idea that you can put HUD information and maps on the secondary screen so the main display is clear and more "immersive", But this is actually moving in the opposite direction of things like new cars that project information on the windscreen so you don't have to look down at the dash to see your speed, gear, gas, etc. Likewise fighter jets all use heads up displays so pilots aren't distracted having to look down at instrument panels. Games have already experimented with putting important information closer to the reticle so you don't have to look to the edge of the screen when you are trying to aim at a moving target for fear of losing track.

There are sure to be good uses for a second screen, but I think the utility for "core" games, in specific these multiplatform ports, is going to be extremely limited.

 

[-tkf-]

The most telling about the new Controller is how core gamers don´t like it. Usually that means the soft/casual players will like it

I am still in the wtf boat, but considering that there is HD included with this WII, i will buy 1st day

 

[Brad Grenz]

The one thing that is indisputable is that it is great to have Nintendo finally making games in HD.

I don't think that necessarily translates into a reprisal of Wii's success. Mario and Zelda didn't save the Gamecube, nor do I think a narrow window of parity with the current HD consoles will have much impact. It explicitly targets consumers who probably already have a PS3 or 360 to play those multiplatform games on. Since before the reveal at E3 I've said the large part of this system's success will rest entirely on whether the mainstream embraces the controller screen gimmick. And how well that goes over still remains to be seen.

 

[nintenho]

I think this kind of thing could prove to be detrimental to games, and not a benefit. There's this idea that you can put HUD information and maps on the secondary screen so the main display is clear and more "immersive", But this is actually moving in the opposite direction of things like new cars that project information on the windscreen so you don't have to look down at the dash to see your speed, gear, gas, etc. Likewise fighter jets all use heads up displays so pilots aren't distracted having to look down at instrument panels. Games have already experimented with putting important information closer to the reticle so you don't have to look to the edge of the screen when you are trying to aim at a moving target for fear of losing track.

There are sure to be good uses for a second screen, but I think the utility for "core" games, in specific these multiplatform ports, is going to be extremely limited.

For RPG/exploration games you get the benefit of not having to pause the screen every couple minutes when going through a dungeon to check your map or inventory. Having it act as the pitboy for a Fallout game was a good example, it would be so much better when going through the indoor areas of the last Fallout games if you could constantly see your position on the map in real-time.

Another example I would absolutely love is if you're playing a sim racer like Forza and you can display the telemetry and damage data on the second touchscreen when you're driving rather than having it on the TV. The touchscreen also should make it easier to design decals for Forza or to design levels for a Little Big Planet type of game.

It would also make it a lot easier to play a pikmin/world building game where there's lots of micromanaging. For games like you're describing where the action is very fast paced, the tablet doesn't offer much of a benefit. It probably actually makes those games harder to play with the lack of clickable thumbsticks and the right thumbstick being above the face buttons.

 

[GuestLV]

gameplay KillerFreaks
2 consoles -2 controllers?
http://n4g.com/news/783296/gameplay-of-upcoming-wii-u-shooter-killer-freaks-from-outer-space

http://www.develop-online.net/news/37999/Programming-guru-gives-insight-into-Wii-U-tech

New Nintendo console 'can enhance Assassin’s Creed engine', Ubisoft tech engineer says
A clearer picture is emerging on the technical sophistication of Nintendo’s upcoming home console, Wii U.
Marc Parenteau, a respected lead Ubisoft Montreal programmer who’s led teams on projects such as Assassin’s Creed, appeared unreserved in his praise for Nintendo’s new device.
“The multicore architecture of the console is a natural fit for our in-house HD engines, such as the Anvil engine,” Parenteau said during a developer roundtable at E3.
Parenteau, one of the few people in the industry that knows of the Wii U’s deepest hardware specifications, said the console’s “large memory capacity” would allow for enhancements to Anvil tech.
He said the extra processing power would allow for precalculating data and increasing cache sizes.
“All the graphical shaders used in Assassin’s Creed are fully functional on Wii U”, Parenteau added.
He claimed that developers with Wii experience will find a familiar set of APIs in Wii U.
“New features, such as multicore processing, will extend the APIs in a natural way with low-level and straightforward calls,” he added.

Square Enix claim they are considering making a Final Fantasy game for Wii U.

WiiNES

 

[patsu]

The one thing that is indisputable is that it is great to have Nintendo finally making games in HD.

I don't think that necessarily translates into a reprisal of Wii's success. Mario and Zelda didn't save the Gamecube, nor do I think a narrow window of parity with the current HD consoles will have much impact. It explicitly targets consumers who probably already have a PS3 or 360 to play those multiplatform games on. Since before the reveal at E3 I've said the large part of this system's success will rest entirely on whether the mainstream embraces the controller screen gimmick. And how well that goes over still remains to be seen.

Existing PS360 gamers have a software library baggage. Nintendo need to attract new core gamers or existing fans first. Those "graduating" out of DSs would be perfect.