Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[GZ007]

Anything faster than Xbox360 or PS3 (even a litle bit) is already a huge leap for nintendo from the Wii hardware level. And today it is also much cheaper than 6 years ago.

I think they will go for a cheap but still faster console. More memory could help a lot when PS3 and Xbox360 developers fight for each MB today. Also a 400 sp, higher clocked ATI gpu is already 2+ times faster than xenos in raw performance. So its realy not hard these days to exceed PS3 and Xbox360.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

AMD has their platform that they promote sort of similar to console. I think this year is called Scorpius which consist of 8 cores Zambezi CPU and ther HD7xxx GPU. All they need to do is put it in a case with PSU, hdd, memory pair with a Linux base OS as well as a controller and you get a console. Doubt it'll be cheap. But it'll be great if they do. But lets face it, there isn't much money to be made from core gamers console hardware. Enthusiast gamers maybe, but most core gamers still thinks $399 is too much for a new console.

8-core Zambezi + discrete GPU wouldn't pitch against a console, price-wise..
Given your description, that seems like a successor to the Dragon platform, which is nothing but a pretty name for a CPU+motherboard+GPU combo that the OEMs can use.


But AMD has the GPU & CPU IP to make a $250->300 "PC Console" (they'd get the APU at manufacturing price for themselves) in 2012 that far exceeds PS360 in performance, and allows most PC games to be played in 1080p.
I.E., a custom version of Steam that "fixes" the video\performance settings for every game that is available through the store for an optimal visuals/performance ratio, keeps all the achievements system and grants an initial line-up of thousands of games.
It wouldn't even need an optical drive, only a regular hard-drive.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Nintendo basicly said in their press release that the console will not launch before April 2012. I hope for a Q4 2012 launch. That way it can launch with alot of PS360 ports and some interally-developed games like a new 'Mario Universe' (Galaxy 3).

I hope the R7xx-based GPU is on par with RV770, it would be nice to have a TeraFlop+ of shader performance. I would imagine a 28nm version would be cool, efficient, cheap and fast. It would also provide a significant leap beyond 360/PS3 and able to handle downports from Xbox3/PS4, if they include at least 1GB RAM.

 

[Fafalada]

but this level of hardware is just not enough to keep them afloat for another 5 years IMHO.

How do you define "keep afloat"?
Anyway - for what's worth - the most profitable segment of PC market(actual games, not web-based stuff) today is still extending well below PS3/360 spec. Hw bets are far from a certain thing.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Nintendo basicly said in their press release that the console will not launch before April 2012. I hope for a Q4 2012 launch. That way it can launch with alot of PS360 ports and some interally-developed games like a new 'Mario Universe' (Galaxy 3).

All they're saying is that they're not counting with the console's sales for the fiscal year ending in March 31st. Why wish for a Q4 2012 launch, if the console could very well be launching in the first week of April?

If they have playable demo units for E3 in June, it means the hardware is (at least almost) finalized. If some developers have already development kits in their hands, that's more than enough time for PC, X360 and PS3 ports until April 2012.

Internally developed games may not even come within the first semester after the console's launch, as we're seeing with the 3DS.

 

[liolio]

Joker had a point early on, it may not be in hardcore gamers best interest but Nintendo approach may find support from editors which would translate in a slowdown of graphic pipeline evolutions.
Plenty of editors have done quiet some works and some engines are impressive (Frostbite 2, Cry engine to name a few) I'm not sure that if they have hardware available in the console space close to your average gamer system they will happily welcome monster systems that would drive the cost higher and would needed a redesign of the engine they've just pushed out. I'm not really enthousiast about it but there is a possiblilty of success. it's sure depend a lot of N system capabilities. I'm not deceived about the rumours about the R7xx, as it's most likely cheaper to license and the architecture is "cheaper" in regard to silicon cost /transistor counts. I just wonder about the number of arrays. I secretely hope for 8 arrays clocked reasonably (~600MHz so the system deliver ~800MFLOPS). Closer access to the hardware would allow for the hardware to really shine. I hope too Nintendo managed to fit everything onto a single chip. Vahalla is 180mm² on 45nm process so it may only be possible if Nintendo goes for a 32 nm proces tho (or if they are willing to go with ~300mm² single chip).

 

[Laa-Yosh]

How do you define "keep afloat"?

Getting ports of multiplatform games is what I've meant. Microsoft and Sony can easily deny them a lot of Ubi and EA games if the Nintendo console's hardware is too weak compared to what they come up with.

Anyway - for what's worth - the most profitable segment of PC market(actual games, not web-based stuff) today is still extending well below PS3/360 spec.

Can you list some examples? I know WoW will run on everything with a keyboard and monitor nowadays but what else is there?

Hw bets are far from a certain thing.

We can see however where Epic, Crytek and Dice are aiming, and it's clearly not a simple update on existing systems. They would not develop such engine features for the PC market only, IMHO.

 

[swaaye]

I think they need a new ground breaking control scheme in order to compete. The Wii control philosophy (gaming in motion if you will) has been duped by MS and Sony now and is no longer special. Trying to compete on graphics will be a lost cause because they won't go loss model like MS and Sony and so can't whip up the same crazy hardware.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new console is gimped due to a backwards compatibility requirement just as Wii was. But I don't think graphics matter much at all beyond having native 720p support so the ugly upscaling is gone.

 

[Cornsnake]

How much can they rely on a new control scheme to get them ahead if both Sony and Microsoft can just copy, or even improve upon it? They'll even have the option to ignore it if turns out unsuccessful.

It'll have to be give them a big headstart fast for it to work. Which might go best with again a smaller graphical upgrade compared to this gen. So they can sell it relatively cheaply.

 

[lwill]

I think they need a new ground breaking control scheme in order to compete. The Wii control philosophy (gaming in motion if you will) has been duped by MS and Sony now and is no longer special. Trying to compete on graphics will be a lost cause because they won't go loss model like MS and Sony and so can't whip up the same crazy hardware.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new console is gimped due to a backwards compatibility requirement just as Wii was. But I don't think graphics matter much at all beyond having native 720p support so the ugly upscaling is gone.

To be fair, the Wii wasn't "gimped" due to BC as much as the Gamecube basically being the base of the entire system. While the new controller and marketing approach made it unique to be considered a new system, spec-wise, the Wii was practically just a boosted GCN. This is not really an option for Nintendo this time.

How much can they rely on a new control scheme to get them ahead if both Sony and Microsoft can just copy, or even improve upon it? They'll even have the option to ignore it if turns out unsuccessful.

It'll have to be give them a big headstart fast for it to work. Which might go best with again a smaller graphical upgrade compared to this gen. So they can sell it relatively cheaply.

The system will need great support. Iwata even stated that the Wii would've been in better shape if Nintendo didn't basically support it alone. Nintendo has been working on its 3rd-party relations, so we will see how that will pan out.

 

[swaaye]

To be fair, the Wii wasn't "gimped" due to BC as much as the Gamecube basically being the base of the entire system. While the new controller and marketing approach made it unique to be considered a new system, spec-wise, the Wii was practically just a boosted GCN. This is not really an option for Nintendo this time.

It was a Gamecube part 2 because that allowed them to keep development largely the same (keep dev costs down) AND have backwards compatibility. They could not have had the Gamecube compatibility with hardware less powerful than 360/PS3. If they had forgone Cube compatibility, they could have built something that was still cheap but also still much more powerful than Wii.

It's the same thing this time around. The final hardware will greatly depend on their plans for backward compatibility and how much they want to change up the architecture.

And I still don't think graphics whoring is a hobby of the bulk of Wii buyers.

 

[ninzel]

I believe the 3DS has 32x, 128MB of RAM.

Oh my mistake I was just reading some specs on the 3ds that mentioned it has 64MB.
Wiki says 128 but other sites I've read say 64.

 

[Rangers]

1GB is the least we can accept IMHO, otherwise no ports from PS4/X3 would be possible. Even with that much it'd only work with downsized textures... then again I expect 2GB from the new HD consoles.

Crytek is on record as desiring 8GB from next gen consoles, and I'd be surprised at anything less than 4. What then?

Just checked newegg and 8GB RAM lowest price seems about $69, 4GB about $39, and 2GB is $19, so yeah at least 4 if not 8 seems very possible especially as these machines are still not likely for 2 more years

 

[swaaye]

I'd lean towards 8 from MS and Sony but I'm counting on N being interested in nice sloppy profit margin.

btw, how viable is GDDR5 as system RAM? Would it be efficient for that?

 

[ninzel]

So if MS held a competition to have people come up with ideas to improve upon the current Xbox360 and they gave you $100 dollars to spend(plus the money you get from the removal of any current components) ,what changes would you make to get the best bang for your buck in terms of graphics?

 

[zed]

2GB will be enuf next generation
A/ OS is not as (bulky) as a PC
B/ you dont have as many apps running at once
C/ average resolution & bitdepth wont be more than 4x what they are currently (unlike previous generations)

also keep in mind when thinking 1GB/2GB/4GB/8GB & price its also speed, thus perhaps machine X will go faster with less memory (by faster memory) even if both cost the same

 

[Rockster]

So if MS held a competition to have people come up with ideas to improve upon the current Xbox360 and they gave you $100 dollars to spend(plus the money you get from the removal of any current components) ,what changes would you make to get the best bang for your buck in terms of graphics?

Interesting question. But why would you impose the restriction of starting with the same design at all? I mean, if the intent is to simply to remove the biggest current bottlenecks then clearly you'd want to up the edram to something more reasonable like 30+MB, as well as bumping up the amount of system RAM and its interface bandwidth. There's just so much more however, that needs to be done to modernize the design. The CPU and GPU themselves need additional capabilities included. Ancillary interfaces like USB and HDMI need to be improved for Kinect and 3D displays. My point is, given the same budget today, the technology you would want to use would be significantly different that what's there now. Not a very efficient approach to console design IMHO.

 

[Rangers]

I wish very much we'd hear some hard tech specs on Wii2 sometime soon...dying to know where it's power range falls. I wonder if Nintendo even has the specs fully locked down? I assume so.

 

[eastmen]

2GB will be enuf next generation
A/ OS is not as (bulky) as a PC
B/ you dont have as many apps running at once
C/ average resolution & bitdepth wont be more than 4x what they are currently (unlike previous generations)

also keep in mind when thinking 1GB/2GB/4GB/8GB & price its also speed, thus perhaps machine X will go faster with less memory (by faster memory) even if both cost the same

2GB/s is going to be tiny . Now that windows has almost fully moved to 64bit with windows 7 the PC will only get acess to more and more ram. You can buy 4 gigs for $40 and I just bought 8 gigs of ddr 3 1866 low voltage for $110.

By the time this console hits we are going to see the minimum gaming pc have 8-16 gigs of ram.

 

[ltcommander.data]

2GB/s is going to be tiny . Now that windows has almost fully moved to 64bit with windows 7 the PC will only get acess to more and more ram. You can buy 4 gigs for $40 and I just bought 8 gigs of ddr 3 1866 low voltage for $110.

By the time this console hits we are going to see the minimum gaming pc have 8-16 gigs of ram.

Well if they use unified memory, it'll likely be high speed GDDR5, which will probably get expensive very fast. Top end graphics cards right now only have 2GB of GDDR5. And it seems highly unlikely that Nintendo is spending ~$100 just on RAM for a console that probably has $300 as the top-end price point. Even ~$40 may be generous. It might be interesting to look at BOMs for the 360 and PS3 to see component cost estimates for when those consoles launched. I really wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo just used 1GB of GDDR5 in a UMA configuration with the GPU having a bit of dedicated eDRAM or 1T-SRAM, etc.