Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[Teasy]

I doubt Nintendo will give us specs. But considering the leaks we've got already I think we'll end up getting them anyway, I hope so anyway

 

[Laa-Yosh]

They aren't doing it because they don't have to, you don't release a new product to compete with an existing product that is selling well (and not facing any new competition).

Yeah, Microsoft is actually getting a good increase in North America with the 360 and they're probably making a profit on the hardware by now.
Also, what we've gotten so far about this new console makes it belong to more like 2009-2010 or so, definitely not 2012.

 

[Teasy]

They aren't doing it because they don't have to, you don't release a new product to compete with an existing product that is selling well (and not facing any new competition). Nintendo however is definitely trending down. If Nintendo releases something decently powerful in 2012, Sony and MS won't be far behind.

The expense of these systems requires a long cycle for profitability. Of course either of them could release a new system if they had too (well actually I'm unsure about Sony). But the fact is the normal console cycle is usually around 6 years.

 

[AlphaWolf]

AND because they're trying to claw back the massive outlay from releasing the systems.

The motivation for profit is there from day 1, you don't change hardware unless it makes sense, either in the face of costs, failing sales or new competition.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

IMO you're going to be disappointed if your expecting all that from any next gen console.

It's not what I expect, in fact I think I'm a little more informed about just how incredibly difficult it will be to implement these features in a realtime environment.
It's what's the next step in graphics though, and some of the things are already in development. We already have some crude cloth sim and hair in the next UE3 interation, also billboard reflections and such, and id and Lionhead already have texture and geometry detail boosting tech as well. Engine developers are clearly aware of what the next steps should be and research has already started thanks to fast PC based systems and the DX11 API.

 

[Teasy]

The motivation for profit is there from day 1, you don't change hardware unless it makes sense, either in the face of costs, failing sales or new competition.

Fair enough there are numerous reasons why MS/Sony are going to probably wait a record amount of time between consoles this gen. Profitability coming late, sales coming late ect At the end of the day though it pretty much all comes down to the high cost of the systems from the start, which is what I was trying to get at.

It's not what I expect, in fact I think I'm a little more informed about just how incredibly difficult it will be to implement these features in a realtime environment.
It's what's the next step in graphics though, and some of the things are already in development. We already have some crude cloth sim and hair in the next UE3 interation, also billboard reflections and such, and id and Lionhead already have texture and geometry detail boosting tech as well. Engine developers are clearly aware of what the next steps should be and research has already started thanks to fast PC based systems and the DX11 API.

We'll see I suppose, I just don't expect things to go so far technologically as to render ports to a R7xx based console impossible.

 

[kagemaru]

It really depends on what hardware they go with. Traditionally the core gamers were hardcore about graphics, but it seems like that's been changing. Most by and large still play 360/ps3 which by tech standards are visually ancient yet they stick with it even though a far better looking pc option is available, so it seems like the core aren't all about graphics anymore. However they do seem to complain about the same stuff over and over again with graphics notably smooth frame rate, texture filtering, shadows and msaa are main points that come up repeatedly. It takes very little hardware today to solve those issues, so who knows maybe the new Nintendo box will solve those and be enough for the hardcore not only to switch to it, but to stick with it for a few years after the 720/ps4 come out. I mean look at how often insignificant differences like resolution make people think one version of a game is garbage and go with the other one. Now imagine if Nintendo could not only up the resolution to 1080p, but fix all those other issues like af, etc, in the process. Would people here be able to resist?

Honestly I don't think much has changed with core gamers. They still love graphics, but they don't know any better. Gamers like us who post on forums or take interest in the underlying tech are the vast minority IMO. So really they either don't realize how easy and cheap it is to get a gaming PC set up, or they don't wish to mess with anything more than your typical game console.

It's only anecdotal but I think we all have friends who love to game, they can be considered core gamers, they buy a couple games a month or every other month, and they are right there for a system launch or at least within a few months afterwards. None of that indicates that they would know any better in the end. They know or care about PR statements and buzz words they can find in a magazine, maybe a website, or on the back of the box. Why else would marketing use them so often?

Great example: EA recently released the full 12 minute BF3 video on XBL and PSN. Only two of my friends knew it was PC footage, the rest of the people I talked to (in person or on Live) actually thought the console versions were going to look that good.

Worded another way, say GT5, MW4, RDR2, etc come out and they are subhd on both 360/ps3 and have the usual frame stutters, jaggies, etc. But the Nintendo version is full 1080p, consistent 30fps, 16xaf, nice shadows, no jaggies, etc. Same games, but just cleaned up. The core care about graphics still presumably to an extent, will they be able to resist? If they do stick with their old gen 360/ps3 to me it really sends the signal home that graphics have fallen to the back of the pack in terms of importance to the average gamer.

I'm sure they'll care and they'll like what they see, but if Sony and MS can convince them that it's worth waiting for their next systems, then they will resist IMO.

Image quality may be important for our kind of people, but the general audience does not care IMHO. See all the subHD games, lack of AA and so on. I don't think that the promise of 1080p and all filters on would be enough to convince millions to replace their systems, I actually think that most PS3 gamers think they're playing every game at 1080p already.

If gamers were lead to believe the hype offered to them, that on top of graphical improvements, we would also see games created on the x3/ps4 not possible on current gen or the Stream, I think they would bite on the next round of systems.

Also yeah, I agree with you about ps3 gamers and the whole 1080p bit. I think 360 gamers think the same too. My buddy just recently got a new 1080p TV and thought all his games are now running at that resolution.

Not too long ago, I was laughing at someone while playing crysis. He claimed the 360 was not a "true HD" system since you could play it on SDTVs and the ps3 was a true HD system since you had to play it on a HDTV. He seriously believed this.

The range of nonsense the average gamer will think is never-ending IMO.

 

[ninzel]

I hope it's not just a port machine,I hope that's not how they try and define better 3rd support.
Why would I switch to a new Wii2 just to play games that I have most likely already played on the PS360? For slightly better graphics? Most avid gamers already have a PS360 at this point.
No,I want new 3rd party games. And if they are trying to steal away customers from PS360, I doubt old games are going to cut it.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Xenos was completed in 2004 and had stunning on-chip EDRAM bandwidth, 256 MB/sec as I said. How difficult and expensive would it be to have say, 1 TB/sec bandwidth?

Yes but that isn't comparable with the bandwidth to regular GPU's memory pools. There are people here that know far more about this than I do but as I understand it, Xenos lacks a lot of the memory saving techniques that other GPU's use as standard. At least to the EDRAM. Therefore 50GB/s on a modern GPU is effectively much closer to Xenos's 256GB/s than it would intially appear to be.

And then there's the obvious like the 32GB/s link between the GPU and daughter die (not sure if that's an issue with the combined chip now) and of course the limited memory pool size.

Given how closely the PS3 keeps up with the 360 graphically with only about 48GB/s total its clear that the EDRAM isn't performing any miracles graphically and it certainly isn't a requirement to match or exceed Xenos's graphical abilities.

 

[Squilliam]

If you guys believe that Nintendo will use IBM for their chip design then doesn't that point to Microsoft being no more than 6 months behind them with the Xbox 3 if we agree with previously posted rumours of an AMD based console system in the works.

 

[sfried]

Seeing the official press, I'm still wondering what this new console is offering that isn't considered "a gimmick" by 3rd party publishers. Personal screen in controllers is something that has been done before. I think we're only seeing the smaller picture so far.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Has anything about the Wiimote itself leaked before the actual announcement? I think it was a complete surprise...

 

[dobwal]

Although that's true, other than the Wii, the best-selling console has always been in the ballpark of it's competitors.

Dominant consoles have usually been within ballpark of all other consoles, because generally the intra generational hardware gap between competing consoles hasn't been that huge. Basically we had most consoles come pretty close in terms of performance mostly dictated by the manufacturing cost. We had some consoles come out that had a definite edge in hardware spec only only to be met low sales because they came with a high price tag.

If PS2 never came out, would everyone have chosen PS1 level performance over GC and XB? I doubt it.

Yes I believe that also, given everything else being equal but with Nintendo everything else isn't equal. Nintendo has strategically given up on competing visually by offering gameplay mechanics not offered on other platforms.

I don't think that's a valid strategy. The Nintendo die-hard, like the other platforms I imagine, probably constitutes a few million. Everyone else will lack loyalties and need to be sold to per-platform. 50 million 'die hard Nintendo fans' from SNES reduced to 33 million 'die-hard' N64 fans, reduced to 25 million die-hard GC fans. How many die-hard Nintendo fans did Wii really get?

The SNES was the dominant console of its time, so its userbase wasn't totally made up of diehard fans neither was the N64. Part of that 33 million users were general users who were buying off of past success. I think there are 20-25 million hardcore fans for each of 3 manufacturers. What Nintendo has shown is you don't need users who thirst for cutting edge graphics to find dominant marketshare. The general market and hardcore Nintendo fans prioritize cutting edge graphics far less than the techie core gamers. The key being a gameplay feature thats obviously seperates your console from theirs and one thats easily marketable as unique, different and new.

Now if NES6 can't capture the existing Wii userbase, then it's effectively starting from scratch. There won't be many millions of die-hard Nintendo fans, and the console will have to sell on its merits, offering enough of an upgrade to the core gamer base that PS360 owners will jump ship now instead of wait a couple of years for the new MS and Sony consoles.

Die hard Nintendo fans are there thick or thin, they are the early adopters that show up because Nintendo has provided them with years to decades of fun. Mainstream adoption won't come from a visual edge but rather how well the new feature unique to the Wii2 resonates with the general population.

This is, AFAIK, a change in the console generations that has no historical precedent, so we can't look back for patterns. We have no idea what a mid-term generation release can or can't do. And considering the wild dynamic of this generation, it doesn't offer much by way of insights either IMO.

This isn't me being all Nintendodamus. This is a stated and obvious strategic choice that Nintendo laid out before the introduction of the Wii. If they were willing to adopt this strategy coming off the third place 24 million userbase GC (their worst selling console), then why should they abandoned such strategy after finding success with the very first console (the best selling Nintendo console of all time) which was a product of that strategic decision.

Nintendo abandoned the old modes of thoughts especially when it came to cutting edge graphics. The unwritten rules that you have to have a major upgrade in graphics to have a chance at market dominance is a rule that has never been tested until this generation and been proven wrong with the caveat that if you don't give them bigger and better graphics, you better give them something new and unique.

 

[V3]

Has anything about the Wiimote itself leaked before the actual announcement? I think it was a complete surprise...

I think hours before the E3, it leaked. Though with the previous leak info there are people that specualted it to be pretty close to the final form.

Though Wii wasn't spread around third party much. Third party was pretty suprise with the Wii. So room for leak was a lot less. This next console maybe different with Ninty wanting third party dev on board before launch..

 

[ninzel]

I'm surprised with so many details/speculation about the CPU/VPU ,not one mention of RAM. This is what I'm most concerned about.
If the original DS had 4MB and the 3DS has 16x as much,can we expect around 1.5 GB RAM for Wii2?

 

[theLonely1]

I'm surprised with so many details/speculation about the CPU/VPU ,not one mention of RAM. This is what I'm most concerned about.
If the original DS had 4MB and the 3DS has 16x as much,can we expect around 1.5 GB RAM for Wii2?

I believe the 3DS has 32x, 128MB of RAM.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I don't see many core gamers jumping on Wii2 because they get the same game with 1080p and higher AA and/or AF. The thing is expected to launch late 2012 and you can be sure that before it launches Ms and Sony will announce their consoles and will show graphic demos that will make the Wii2 look old.

And where did you see the "late 2012" term?
All rumours are pointing to Q1 2012, at the same time as the 3DS.

If you guys believe that Nintendo will use IBM for their chip design then doesn't that point to Microsoft being no more than 6 months behind them with the Xbox 3 if we agree with previously posted rumours of an AMD based console system in the works.

Both Sony and MS have been claiming a ~10 year lifetime for their current-gen consoles.
How about a fourth player in the console space?
Could AMD themselves be building their own console?

Something like Phantom, a disguised HTPC that runs PC games at decent settings (using something like a Trinity APU and Steam-only based game distribution).

Seeing the official press, I'm still wondering what this new console is offering that isn't considered "a gimmick" by 3rd party publishers. Personal screen in controllers is something that has been done before. I think we're only seeing the smaller picture so far.

A 6" color touchscreen with 960*540 resolution isn't really comparable to a 1.8" monochrome screen with 48*32 resolution...
One is usable as a "main screen substitute", the other isn't.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

1GB is the least we can accept IMHO, otherwise no ports from PS4/X3 would be possible. Even with that much it'd only work with downsized textures... then again I expect 2GB from the new HD consoles.

 

[V3]

1GB is the least we can accept IMHO, otherwise no ports from PS4/X3 would be possible. Even with that much it'd only work with downsized textures... then again I expect 2GB from the new HD consoles.

Well if the specs turned out to be true, it'll be most likely a port of PS3/X360 instead IMO. At the change of generation, multiplat titles will still go for the large userbase, PS4/X3 would still be in minority, they are the one that most likely getting the Wii2 port instead, like how most generation start with.

Anyway what I find interesting is the screen is touch capable, Pointer and motion on TV, touch screen only when playing with the controller only ? Touch and pointer is similar but they don't equate, so I wonder how everything will gel together. The thing I like about a new Nintendo console, is Nintendo went to a great length making a new controller for it. I wish MS and Sony do the same.

 

[V3]

Something like Phantom, a disguised HTPC that runs PC games at decent settings (using something like a Trinity APU and Steam-only based game distribution).

AMD has their platform that they promote sort of similar to console. I think this year is called Scorpius which consist of 8 cores Zambezi CPU and ther HD7xxx GPU. All they need to do is put it in a case with PSU, hdd, memory pair with a Linux base OS as well as a controller and you get a console. Doubt it'll be cheap. But it'll be great if they do. But lets face it, there isn't much money to be made from core gamers console hardware. Enthusiast gamers maybe, but most core gamers still thinks $399 is too much for a new console.