Fact: Nintendo to release HD console + controllers with built-in screen late 2012

[Cornsnake]

Is it really such a given that 3rd parties will support this new console, porting over all their AAA games? Nintendo doesn't exactly have a good track record with 3rd party developers, even though they are now saying they want to improve it.

And a lot of AAA games require something equal to Xbox Live or PSN to get the most out of them.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Is it really such a given that 3rd parties will support this new console, porting over all their AAA games?
Nintendo doesn't exactly have a good track record with 3rd party developers, even though they are now saying they want to improve it.

We don't know if the 3rd parties will support them, but we do know (from the rumours) that it'll be a priority for Nintendo this time.
And why wouldn't they? If it comes cheap to port games from the PC and X360 as those slides claim, any developer should be interested in porting their games to the new console.

And a lot of AAA games require something equal to Xbox Live or PSN to get the most out of them.

For online multiplayer, yes. For same-room multiplayer (as the controller highly suggests), not really.
But Nintendo is sitting on large amounts of cash. A solid online ecossystem would be a valid investment.

 

[MarkoIt]

http://www.01net.com/editorial/5319...es-precisions-sur-la-manette-et-le-streaming/


http://kotaku.com/#!5794851/weve-sketched-the-wii-2-controller-of-our-dreams

I really think Nintendo is using RV740. Looking at its specs (640sp, 32 TMU, 16 ROPs), it's way better than Redwood (EG), and Turks (NI). Maybe they considered both Bart and Juniper too big and expensive.
The RV740 was never replaced performance wise.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...adeon-hd-5670/18/#abschnitt_performancerating

The 4770 is faster than a 5670, and probably faster than a 6670.

 

[Megadrive1988]

16 ROPs is extremely important IMO. It automatically guarantees twice the pixel fillrate per MHz compared to Xenos and RSX. Now think if the Nintendo GPU is clocked at 900 Mhz, that's nearly 4x the fillrate of Xenos and RSX. Good enough for 1080p

 

[Megadrive1988]

Rumored photos of the console or devkit

I hope there's a RV770 in there, if not at least an RV740

 

[babcat]

We already know what's in PSP2, and it isn't a dual score series 6.

That could change.

I think Sony is going to realize that by the time the PSP 2 is launched there will be cell phones that are more powerful coming in a few months. The only thing that will make the PSP viable is if it offers more advanced hardware than any cell phone. If not, it just makes sense to buy a cell phone.

 

[ltcommander.data]

And I sincerely hope they'll use Evergreen-variant instead of R700-variant to get more motivation for (proper use of) DX11 in PC world too

R700 would basically nullify the possibility of having tesselation in titles ported from the PC (which should be pretty much standard in 2012).

How important is using a standard DX11 GPU to portability if Nintendo won't presumably be supporting DirectX anyways rather their own proprietary API or direct bare-metal access? The R700 has a tessellator, and with all ATI's talk about how their many years of tessellation experience prepared them for DX11, presumably its fairly comparable to R800's fixed function tessellator. I'm guessing the major distinction is in programmability where the R700's tessellator was controlled by the vertex shader while the R800 has hull and domain shaders. But is that actually a huge architectural gap or simply a limitation of mapping the hardware to a defined DirectX version? Basically, can hull/domain shader-like structures and programmability be achieved on the R700 if Nintendo defines their own API to fully exploit the hardware or if developers are given low level access to the hardware? Otherwise, architecturally R800 was similar to a doubled R700 with the necessary changes to add DX11 support and not an architectural rethink like Cayman. So if Nintendo can make tessellation easily exploitable on the R700, are they really putting themselves at a large disadvantage by not choosing Evergreen?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I think Nintendo had both the time and the money to order a GPU that's not "off-the-shelf" like the RV740.

It's also possible that the GPU\CPU combo may never be fully disclosed (like the 3DS), in order to avoid criticism.

 

[wco81]

If they do come out with these controllers with screens, that might imply that they're de-emphasizing motion control? You have to hold the controllers to see the screen and holding a controller with a 6-inch screen probably crimps the motion control possibilities.

The other thing is, if they're investing so much into these controllers, that means they're more into party multiplayer than online multiplayer. That approach worked for them with the Wii, which was a great party game, helping sell the system to novices who tried it at some gathering.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

How important is using a standard DX11 GPU to portability if Nintendo won't presumably be supporting DirectX anyways rather their own proprietary API or direct bare-metal access? The R700 has a tessellator, and with all ATI's talk about how their many years of tessellation experience prepared them for DX11, presumably its fairly comparable to R800's fixed function tessellator. I'm guessing the major distinction is in programmability where the R700's tessellator was controlled by the vertex shader while the R800 has hull and domain shaders. But is that actually a huge architectural gap or simply a limitation of mapping the hardware to a defined DirectX version? Basically, can hull/domain shader-like structures and programmability be achieved on the R700 if Nintendo defines their own API to fully exploit the hardware or if developers are given low level access to the hardware? Otherwise, architecturally R800 was similar to a doubled R700 with the necessary changes to add DX11 support and not an architectural rethink like Cayman. So if Nintendo can make tessellation easily exploitable on the R700, are they really putting themselves at a large disadvantage by not choosing Evergreen?

DX11 isn't the only API with programmable tesselation support.
The slides claim a revolutionary developmer-friendly ecossystem, so I think OpenGL 4.1 + OpenCL 1.0 compatibility with OpenGL tesselation would be for their best interest.

 

[AmFreak]

The scans are fake according to an ign guy's twitter.

 

[joker454]

Is it really such a given that 3rd parties will support this new console, porting over all their AAA games? Nintendo doesn't exactly have a good track record with 3rd party developers, even though they are now saying they want to improve it.

It will be if their tools are good. Porting the 360 versions of games over will be a piece of cake, and they can enable stuff like better af, higher res, better shadows, better msaa, and get smoother framerate with very little work. Nintendo may have found the next great strategy, basically they will be in full poach mode and steal back the hardcore while at the same time offering Nintendo classics that can only be had on their box. Their track record with 3rd parties I think will be largely moot, as publishers are desperately looking for new platforms to resell the same content so I suspect they will flock to this platform if porting is indeed made to be easy.

And a lot of AAA games require something equal to Xbox Live or PSN to get the most out of them.

Online is indeed the big wildcard, Nintendo's is so far behind Live so that's basically the main sticky wicket to their strategy. Still though for guys like me it won't be as big of a deal as most of my friends long since stopped gaming on Live since the console is so old, and the few that remain mostly use it for Netflix anyways. I have to think there are more people in my situation, and guys like us would consider trying online on Nintendo's box so long as it's not utter ass. Their online track record is indeed horrific though, I guess that remains to be seen. Maybe they will shock everyone and offer Steam as the complete online service on the new box

 

[MarkoIt]

IGN: multiple sources confirmed Project Cafè to be much faster than PS360
01.net/other sites: multiple sources confirmed that it's a notch faster than PS360
Eurogamer: our sources confirmed that it's barely faster and sometimes slower than PS360

Who is right?

 

[Arwin]

Out of those sites, I tend to go for Eurogamer.

 

[Cornsnake]

We don't know if the 3rd parties will support them, but we do know (from the rumours) that it'll be a priority for Nintendo this time.
And why wouldn't they? If it comes cheap to port games from the PC and X360 as those slides claim, any developer should be interested in porting their games to the new console.

The Gamecube had to miss out on some cheap ports form AAA games. The same could happen again. I could see publishers not bothering to port over games that may not match Nintendo's usual audience, or have big online components.

 

[Teasy]

I think he was talking about the Wii.

Ah yeah I think your right.

 

[ltcommander.data]

If they do come out with these controllers with screens, that might imply that they're de-emphasizing motion control? You have to hold the controllers to see the screen and holding a controller with a 6-inch screen probably crimps the motion control possibilities.

The other thing is, if they're investing so much into these controllers, that means they're more into party multiplayer than online multiplayer. That approach worked for them with the Wii, which was a great party game, helping sell the system to novices who tried it at some gathering.

That's the thing though, if they are taking each quarter of a 1080p split-screen image and sending it to the controllers, do they actually intend for the controller screen to be the primary screen? I thought a major feature of home console gaming was the ability to play on a big screen TV rather than on a handheld. Otherwise, emphasizing the controller screen basically makes the systems a NGP competitor tied to a base station. And the group fun element could well become each family member locked in their bedroom playing on a controller over WiFi.

I'm thinking it'd make more sense for the controller screen to be smaller, primarily used as a secondary screen say for inventory in RPGs or mini-games and puzzles in action-adventure games, and for multi-touch input useful for complicated combo-attacks, etc. That way the times you need to look at the screen are low-action moments otherwise you can just memorize the location of say spells on the screen or do quick swipes on the screen without looking for fast action without impeding motion control capabilities.

 

[Eteric]

Then why ever come out with a more powerful console at all? Save money, lower price, and make a less powerful successor! PS3 should have been $79 and N64 power level! It couldn't lose!

:/

You can have a different opinion, but you are wrong. Too bad it wont be clear for 2-3 years, and even then you'll blame Streams downfall on something else than the true cause (hell some people still claim Wii doesnt get third party support for reasons other than it's lack of graphics).

The only shot Nintendo has here is if they are smart enough to actually be planning ahead for staggered cycles (if they actually have a conscious plan to launch Stream in 12, PS4/720 in 2014, then launch Stream 2 in 2016-17). I strongly doubt they are, though. Even then, I suspect the costs would be too high for them. Stream 2 topping PS4/720 will be too rich for their blood even two years later I think.

I really dont see a good outcome here for Nintendo at all, and it's nothing new, they just reported profits down 52%...it just seems Japanese companies struggle these days...

PS, Nintendo just reported 1.36m Wii shipments for March quarter, PS3 should be around 2.1 and X360 maybe 1.8 or 1.9. So those more powerful consoles that never win combined outsold Wii about 3-1.

Maybe Nintendo's last chance after Stream will be my Onlive style idea (disruptive), I actually think that has a pretty good chance of coming to pass...were Nintendo not so seemingly out of it...

I think, for the sake of developers and publishers, they need to rethink how they boost technology in their consoles.

For instance, the PS3 and 360 were pretty bleeding edge for their time.

The problem is that if we make another leap on the scale of PS2/Xbox/ to PS3/360, the costs of game development will once again jump exponentially. Development costs will rise, game console makers will lose money for a couple of years. Everyone kind of loses.

I think what they should be doing is instead of making jumps to the bleeding edge, they should go with technology three or four years ahead of their last system, but not bleeding edge. That way the hardware is proven to be stable, the console makers can profit, and developers can use upgraded versions of older engines (like Bioshock uses Unreal 2), rather than having to start from scratch again.

The point is that development budgets are at the point where a single failed game can put you out of business. While I don't think we should give up on better technology, I think we need to take it a bit slower and be more mindful of the effects it can have on publishers and developers.

 

[Teasy]

That could change.

I think Sony is going to realize that by the time the PSP 2 is launched there will be cell phones that are more powerful coming in a few months. The only thing that will make the PSP viable is if it offers more advanced hardware than any cell phone. If not, it just makes sense to buy a cell phone.

They have games already well into development and the system coming out in about 8 months time (meaning they need to start mass production in the next few months). I can't imagine them changing the GPU to something much more powerful at this late stage, it would be absolutely unprecedented AFAIR.

 

[gongo]

It is in the news...Wii2Cafe! ....pretty unexciting confirmation....Nintendo could have done with a bigger announcement.

I got questions to put up for discussions.

1. Why did they choose IBM again? 3 cores only? I thought IBM was criticized for putting theoretical numbers ahead of real perf this gen...so what cpu line does IBM have that is better (for gaming/perf/watt) than Bobcat or ARM, or even Sandy bridge....?

2. R700...why?? R700 tech was as good as it was as rough, i owned one...and it was hot and not too efficient....unless they are using 4770 (major WTF then)... how much more expensive if Cafe used a 5770 with 256bits? That would give 4890 performance with DX11 and higher perf efficiency.. that IF Cafe does have a 256bit R700 bus (doubt it.)

3. Streaming tablet controller...sounds like a back step from Wii in catching the imagination....obviously done and decided because...look around you..every one has their eyes staring and engaging their little portable screens....but i think at home....this does not feel right...no where the activity fun with split-motion controllers....it wont be cheap (even with single touch, lame).... ergonomically questionable.... will it have the same buttons/layout as 3DS...wasted opportunity??

Thanks!