ExtremeTech Article Up

Because the screenshots we gave to NVIDIA were from a version that was under NDA to Beta participants only, I sent them to NVIDIA before consulting Futuremark.

Gee, thanks. Why, what have we done?

 

Exactly.

And each time there's a bug in a driver, web sites have have never commented on them without getting the "conclusion" from all sources? Each time a "bug" is found, it shouldn't be reported on?

You are trying to have it both ways. That ET shouldn't have some expose because somehow this is "different", but at the same time, this is the "same" as every other situation, so the IHVs shouldn't do anything different.

Pick a side.

I see you don't understand how a trial works.

The PROSECUTION just presented its case. If folks want to pass final judgement based on the prosecution, they are wrong. It's up to nVidia to now make the case for the defense.

What "confidential information" was given?

Where is the "rule" that says you decide how far into an investigation is "far enough" before the results are made known?

Um, these sites can't FORCE NV TO DO AN INVESTIGATION. All they can do is make them aware of the problem.

By your logic, any IHV can cheat in a driver, it can be "found out" by someone, they can inform the IHV, and the IHV can say "eh, we'll get back to you on that, maybe".

And that's good enough for you right?

Says who?

quote]then when the conclusion comes out there would have been an official statement. [/quote]

ET DID MAKE A CONCLUSION. Their conclusion is THEIR OFFICIAL STATEMENT on what they think is going on. ET is not Futuremark. Don't treat them as one in the same.

A conclusion that was made by ET.

And what is the problem with that? ET is a journalist site, they are free to come up with whatever conclusionst they want to. Unless FM tells them no, we know for sure that your conlcusion is false, ET is free to publish whatever the hell they want.

I don't recall Kyle even ASKING ID SOFTWARE whether or not ATi was cheating or if it was a driver bug....but I guess that's OK?

Where do you come up with this stuff? WHAT was established in the beta program? That one can't publish results from drivers that don't do what they are suppossed to do?

What confidential information? Certainly not confidential to nVidia. THE DRIVERS ARE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

But well it doesn't seems to have been include in your requirements.

The relevance is the HYPOCRICY of your stance, pending your answer to the question.

ED, NOBODY "SEES IT" but you. That should tell you something.

 

No, just moronic, illogical, and without any basis.

 

You told the truth, thats a no-no on review sites.

I guess we must follow the Golden Rule from the wise Internet Prophet, sweep it under the carpet and follow Jerry Springers wise words:

"But if you can't SEE the cheating, isn't that an optimization?" - Kyle Bennett ([H]ard|OCP)® TM

 

I DIDNT SAY THERE WAS NO NDA.

I said show me where the NDA was broken by ET doing the article.

Show me where nVidia should be is protected by an NDA they ARE NOT PARTY TO!

Stop getting concerned about the messengers methods when the message is more important, and it hasn't been mishandled in making it public. The only rule breaking was when Dave set the pictures to nVidia, so who the hell was stitching nVidia up by breaking the NDA in that manner - NO ONE.

Your not a messanger, your a looping tape deck with no input mechanism behind a freakin brick wall.

 

Doom, that quote's going in my sig. hehe

 

DaveB,

Sorry for getting you tired. I appreciate your answer. I understand what you are saying. I see your point, but you don't seem to see mine (ie possible conflict of interest). That's a pity, but well it's not a problem and it won't make me stay awake tonight

Evil

 

Dear lord, did he actually write that? Link please.

 

You ask, you shall recieve..middle of page.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=613531&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

 

Umm did Kyle change that editorial because for some reason it reads differently now? [No conspiracy theories included in this post]

 

dear god you cant let it go can you, he cant see yours, along with 90% of people in this thread, because your point was proven invalid pages ago!

 

I am utterly amazed by Kyle's quote that Doom offered.

 

Evildeus...... You just can't open your mind to the truth here...... You act like nVidia is the second coming...... It's jusy a company....... granted, a company with very bad ethics.... but just a company!

 

Hey everyone it is OK to disagree... even when you argue your point flawlessly there are some that will disagree and will counterargue with new points or the same old ones.

It is wise (IMHO) to sometimes simply let go of the disagreements and continue onto something else where there may be some productivity instead of headaches caused by these infinite circular arguments.

If ED doesn't agree then great - lets leave it there.

 

yet another fantastic quote from kyle bennet!
God that thread is awful, Doom.

another example of the lunacy:

oh. my. God. I cannot believe kyle is that stupid.

 

Why not? He is from Texas after all...

Steady on there cowboys, I is only jokin with ya...hick

 

Well, either he's stupid or bought and paid for......

EDIT: or both!

 

Kyle seems to be channeling Ed Seraglio. Maybe we need a priest to exorcise the demon.

 

I have to say that at one time HardOCP was one of my main sources for hardware news and reviews, but I really must question Kyle's judgement here. He actually says "take advantage of every way to win the benchmark as long as it did not impact IQ..." which completely amazes me.

Imagine for a moment the doors this opens. With that reasoning, it would be perfectly allowable for the Nvidia drivers to come with CPUFSB and overclock your machine as soon as it detects a known "Benchmark" being run. Most people's machines can run just fine with the FSB upped about 3mhz, so, according to Kyle's logic, what would be the harm? You'd get maybe a 1% bump in the final benchmark score, and hey, it doesn't impact the IQ and increases the frame rate, so it's an optimization! Right?!

Or why not take it to the complete extreme? Have the drivers contain one huge compressed file of screenshots from every frame of every 3dmark, flash them on your screen at 200 fps, and boom, you've got a winner! Ahh, optimization at its finest...

Seriously, the most basic rule for these reviews must be that Video Cards see a benchmark as a game! Hell, they must be completely benchmark blind, because what it comes down to is *any* application that you run on a system with the purpose of testing its speed *becomes* by it's very nature a benchmark. Thus, this policy of "Anything goes to win a benchmark" simply cannot stand in the long run.

Best of luck everyone in trying to get nvidia to fix this, or even in getting the other big hardware sites to take notice, and keep up the good work.

 

better idea
since the 2d driver draws the 3dmark at the end, it's can render a new score !!! it doesnt alter the iq so it's not cheating