E3 Nintendo Conference Thread

[Scott_Arm]

The only way to measure the value of a console, is how well it succeeds in what it's supposed to do: entertain.

Are the Xbox360 and PS3 better at entertaining the user because of the superior number crunching power and storage capacity? It's not a clean cut answer. If I have as much fun playing games on a Wii as I do playing games on the 360, then it really is far better value, isn't it? Of course, that's all subjective and depends on what type of games you like to play, but you can't write off the Wii as worse value because of what's inside the box.

I think a lot of the backlash against the Nintendo conference is unwarranted. I understand what they were trying to do, and how they were trying to spin their success and products. All three of the conferences were somewhat of a letdown to me. From Nintendo, I wanted to see some title announcements. From Xbox360 and PS3 I just wanted to see less "been there, done that." Too many uninteresting sequels. I'm not too excited about Halo3 or Killzone 2. They look fantastic, but I'm not seein' anything in the gameplay that looks really interesting. Nintendo has some of the same with Metroid Prime 3, but at least with Super Mario Galaxy, there are a lot of new gameplay mechanics (or it seems so) and it's a different take on the platform genre.

I suppose I'm just a jaded gamer that isn't easily thrilled by fancy graphics, because I've played so many letdown games that only had graphics to offer. To me, Nintendo is at least trying to breath some new life in the way we play games.

 

[jandar]

^^

Agree with above.

I know this is a 3D graphics based forum, but over the years I have been here, it has gone from what 3D can do, to more of a "its not cutting edge its crap".

I have seen very few games that use depth of field like SMG uses.
I do see every new FPS game out there that has the same shiny plastic look with the same gameplay mechanics.

I actually go back as far in 3D games as Wolfenstein.

I was also one of those crazies who hacked their own OpenGL.dll to get their Rage Pro to run quake a little better.

Trust me when I say this, the current state of graphics has hit a wall. Everything is overshiny and overlit. Turn down the bloom/hdr and actually make stuff better.

I don't want to see a well skinned, textured 5000 polygon character, give me a well textured 50000 polygon version that doesn't look like it came out of a package.

Give me realistic water movement, not just realistic water.

On top of it all, stop making the same game every year with better graphics. That is worse for the business than what Nintendo is doing.

Oh yeah, HardCore Gamers are only a fraction of the market, get over it. Get off of your high horse and stop complaining.

Don't tell me the Wiimote sucks for FPS until I have a 20 minute video of you playing RE4 Wii Edition.

 

[Arwin]

Oh yeah, HardCore Gamers are only a fraction of the market, get over it. Get off of your high horse and stop complaining.

Give us time, jandar. Not so long ago, there wasn't a more hardcore gamer for me than a Nintendo fanatic and his GameCube. Playstation was the epithomy of casual gaming, with Buzz, SingStar, Time Crisis / Point Blank, EyeToy, DDR, EA Sports Big games, the average movie tie-in, and so on and so forth.

Things just seem to be changing fast and you have to give us some time to catch up.

Your list of comments is absurd, by the way. You mention so many things that are all over the place on other consoles. Especially your comments about graphics are way off the mark.

 

[jandar]

No they are not.

This board seems to define a hardcore gamer as someone who drools over the shiny happy plastic people in Gears of War or Halo 3.

Lets compare to a PC for a moment, there are a ton of graphic gamers, yet there are more RTS gamers, who in my opinion are more hardcore than FPS gamers, yet you don't hear them getting shat on by every graphic geek out there.

My comments about graphics are dead on, Master Chief looks like he was just pressed out of the mold injector and had the seams sanded down.

Gears of War look like MacFarland toys.

They can't make up their minds whether they want to be video games or CGI movies.




**looks at bank account**
I could go buy an 360 Elite and PS3 both today and quite a few games to go with them. And I could also pick up an 8800 video card to match my 4GB C2D 3ghz setup.

The gamer in me says I'm too busy playing the Wii to care.

 

[Arwin]

No they are not.

This board seems to define a hardcore gamer as someone who drools over the shiny happy plastic people in Gears of War or Halo 3.

You are saying this while the majority here seems to be interested in Killzone 2 and CoD4, both of which feature realistic looking graphics and depth of field?

Lets compare to a PC for a moment, there are a ton of graphic gamers, yet there are more RTS gamers, who in my opinion are more hardcore than FPS gamers, yet you don't hear them getting shat on by every graphic geek out there.

You feel you are being shat on by graphics geeks? Listen, son, have you bothered to inform yourself where you are scattering your posts? This forum is Beyond3d, full of graphics professionals and enthusiasts. It's not that they have no respect or interest in art or graphics on the Wii, but don't be surprised if they look elsewhere for cutting edge developments in their field.

My comments about graphics are dead on, Master Chief looks like he was just pressed out of the mold injector and had the seams sanded down.

Gears of War look like MacFarland toys.

They can't make up their minds whether they want to be video games or CGI movies.

**looks at bank account**
I could go buy an 360 Elite and PS3 both today and quite a few games to go with them. And I could also pick up an 8800 video card to match my 4GB C2D 3ghz setup.

The gamer in me says I'm too busy playing the Wii to care.

And I'm happy for you. Now stop being so insecure about your passion and carry on playing, rather than posting off-topic rubbish on a forum that obviously isn't meant to be for you.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

No they are not.

This board seems to define a hardcore gamer as someone who drools over the shiny happy plastic people in Gears of War or Halo 3.

Lets compare to a PC for a moment, there are a ton of graphic gamers, yet there are more RTS gamers, who in my opinion are more hardcore than FPS gamers, yet you don't hear them getting shat on by every graphic geek out there.

My comments about graphics are dead on, Master Chief looks like he was just pressed out of the mold injector and had the seams sanded down.

Gears of War look like MacFarland toys.

They can't make up their minds whether they want to be video games or CGI movies.




**looks at bank account**
I could go buy an 360 Elite and PS3 both today and quite a few games to go with them. And I could also pick up an 8800 video card to match my 4GB C2D 3ghz setup.

The gamer in me says I'm too busy playing the Wii to care.

And what exactly on the Wii is keeping you so busy? It certanly could not be the games, unless you are still playing Wii Sports and Zelda. So far the best games Wii has have been ports from the GameCube with Zelda and Resident Evil 4, and with little to no serious 3rd party support it looks like you will be relying on Nintendo to provide you with some decent games.

 

[Readykilowatt]

There are no hardcore gamers at this forum. What you're seeing here is just a bunch of noisy PC/Xbox/Nintendo/Playstation fanboys. A hardcore gamer is someone who desperately wants every game and every console/handheld regardless of what it is.

 

[fearsomepirate]

The only way to measure the value of a console, is how well it succeeds in what it's supposed to do: entertain.

So if the Wii is more fun than the X360 Elite, would you say it's worth $479?

In a market sense, a product is worth what people will pay. That applies individually. To me and quite a few other more geeky types, an overclocked Gamecube with a budget game and a weird controller is not worth $250.

Get a clue, people here like technology. I think I might be a misfit because I'm more fascinated by low-power and legacy hardware than fancy pixel shaders, but people around here tend to look at technology first. $250 for the graphics technology of 2000 is overpriced in our eyes. If it was fairly priced, you'd see fewer complaints from us.

 

[Scott_Arm]

So if the Wii is more fun than the X360 Elite, would you say it's worth $479?

In a market sense, a product is worth what people will pay. That applies individually. To me and quite a few other more geeky types, an overclocked Gamecube with a budget game and a weird controller is not worth $250.

Get a clue, people here like technology. I think I might be a misfit because I'm more fascinated by low-power and legacy hardware than fancy pixel shaders, but people around here tend to look at technology first. $250 for the graphics technology of 2000 is overpriced in our eyes. If it was fairly priced, you'd see fewer complaints from us.

Well, if someone buys a console for $479 and they have a lot of fun playing, and feel it justifies the price, then it's worth the money. Personally, I would never pay $479 for any console.

I understand the people who post here are tech enthusiasts, and they like to debate the merits of different technologies. That's fair, and the discussions can be pretty interesting. Even if you're one of those enthusiasts is it fair to tell people that enjoy gaming on the Wii that they aren't "serious" gamers, or that they've been ripped off, even though they're perfectly satisfied with the system? It just seems like a very elitist attitude to me, and it has very little to do with actual discussion of technology. If someone wants to discuss how the Wii architecture works, or what sets it apart from the latest and greatest hardware in the Xbox360 and PS3, that's fine. That's a real technology discussion. And like I say, the Wii is priced fairly because people are willing to pay it, and they're having fun with the system, which is the only thing that really matters in gaming.

 

[Todd33]

There are no hardcore gamers at this forum. What you're seeing here is just a bunch of noisy PC/Xbox/Nintendo/Playstation fanboys. A hardcore gamer is someone who desperately wants every game and every console/handheld regardless of what it is.

Not true. I like games, but do I want the DS or PSP to suddenly sell 500m units and draw 95% of the game developers to that platform? No, I don't want to play PSP or DS games all that much and I don't want all the good devs to flood to some low end cash cow.

 

[jandar]

You are saying this while the majority here seems to be interested in Killzone 2 and CoD4, both of which feature realistic looking graphics and depth of field?

Notice that I did not mention those titles as plasticized games? Maybe because the bloom/hdr is not overdone?
Maybe because the developers actually worked on using the abilities of the machine?

You feel you are being shat on by graphics geeks? Listen, son, have you bothered to inform yourself where you are scattering your posts? This forum is Beyond3d, full of graphics professionals and enthusiasts.

Listen Kid, Ive been registered here since 2002, lurked here since late 1999, learning a lot. I know where the hell I posted at.

It's not that they have no respect or interest in art or graphics on the Wii, but don't be surprised if they look elsewhere for cutting edge developments in their field.

No, the majority of posts here are no longer about rendering techniques, or what can be done with hardware, or the possibilities of said hardware, instead it is about taking a prebaked batch of tools, throwing a jr. college level model through it, applying shaders and thinking they know what they heck they are doing.

And I'm happy for you. Now stop being so insecure about your passion and carry on playing, rather than posting off-topic rubbish on a forum that obviously isn't meant to be for you.

So this needs to be renamed to the PS3 & 360 forum, because the Wii has sucky graphics forum then?

 

[Asher]

There are no hardcore gamers at this forum. What you're seeing here is just a bunch of noisy PC/Xbox/Nintendo/Playstation fanboys. A hardcore gamer is someone who desperately wants every game and every console/handheld regardless of what it is.

That would be me.

 

[one]

There are no hardcore gamers at this forum. What you're seeing here is just a bunch of noisy PC/Xbox/Nintendo/Playstation fanboys. A hardcore gamer is someone who desperately wants every game and every console/handheld regardless of what it is.

I guess posting in a forum takes less time than playing all sorts of games

 

[pipo]

And what exactly on the Wii is keeping you so busy? It certanly could not be the games, unless you are still playing Wii Sports and Zelda. So far the best games Wii has have been ports from the GameCube with Zelda and Resident Evil 4, and with little to no serious 3rd party support it looks like you will be relying on Nintendo to provide you with some decent games.

I was wondering the same thing.

I love Nintendo, but 3 games a year isn't good enough to keep me from other consoles.

While we're at it, where the hell is Pikmin? Both on DS and Wii please.

 

[thatdude90210]

I don't game that many hours, haven't bought a 360 game since Gears, but I bought Tiger Woods, WiiPlay, Rayman, Zelda, Mario party 8, and RE4, all for the Wii since. I've put almost 40 hours into RE4 Wii (played through the game twice, + separate way). And every time my niece and nephew come over, they want to play Mario party 8.

Btw, Ebgames is listing pre-order price for WiiFit at $69.99. If Nintendo can get it in at that price, they have another system seller.

 

[jandar]

And what exactly on the Wii is keeping you so busy? It certanly could not be the games, unless you are still playing Wii Sports and Zelda. So far the best games Wii has have been ports from the GameCube with Zelda and Resident Evil 4, and with little to no serious 3rd party support it looks like you will be relying on Nintendo to provide you with some decent games.

Every developer worth their salt is kicking themselves for not risking developing for the Wii since last E3.

They assigned subpar teams to churn shovelware and PS2 ports.

Its not Nintendo's fault, they have 9 million consoles out there in 8 months, almost catching the Xbox 360 who had a year head start, yet developers were too busy looking at the 360 and PS3 as the consoles to develop for. Everyone thought the Wii was going to suck.


I have actually been busy playing RE4 Wii.
My nephews stayed the weekend with me (16 and 14) and we played Wii Sports, Monster 4x4 and Wii Play for about 8 or 9 hours total as well as MK.

Like I said, blame the lazy non-risk taking developers for the lack of 3rd party games, not Nintendo, they made it easy to develop the games.

This article kind of states it all in why Developers are stupid to not build for the Wii.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6279&Itemid=2

Sebastian estimates that a game publisher must sell approximately 300,000 software units to break even, "conservatively,"whereas it would take about 600,000 in unit sales for an Xbox 360 or PS3 game to make all its money back.

Even shovelware can sell 300K on 10 million consoles.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Like I said, blame the lazy non-risk taking developers.

Blame the publishers, not the developers. Many a developer would like to do something different, but they need investment, and that means following the publishers' ideas. For example, all Team17 makes are Worms games, pretty much. They used to make lots of various games. They would like to make other games, but Worms is all publishers will pay them for, so they stick to it.

And one can also portion some of the blame to the markets. When publishers have published more risky stuff, often it's failed. ICO and Okami didn't achieve fantastic market success, whereas shooters do. So as a publisher, which one are you more likely to invest in?

 

[fearsomepirate]

Even shovelware can sell 300K on 10 million consoles.

You're kidding, right? When consoles are only at the 10m mark, they don't sell tons of games over the 300K mark.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Didnt even CoD on the wii sold around 300k? if even a half assed launch game like CoD can, almost every title can you'd think.

 

[jandar]

Blame the publishers, not the developers. Many a developer would like to do something different, but they need investment, and that means following the publishers' ideas. For example, all Team17 makes are Worms games, pretty much. They used to make lots of various games. They would like to make other games, but Worms is all publishers will pay them for, so they stick to it.

And one can also portion some of the blame to the markets. When publishers have published more risky stuff, often it's failed. ICO and Okami didn't achieve fantastic market success, whereas shooters do. So as a publisher, which one are you more likely to invest in?

2500$ will buy you a Wii Dev Kit. Games are costing 1-5 million on average to make.
Get a couple of private investors and you are set. There is no need to spend 20 million anymore, unless its the PS360.