Dreams : create, share & play [PS4, PS5]

[Shifty Geezer]

Turns out the noise is a film-grain post effect and can be disabled completely. Tutorials are pretty limited. So far they haven't talked about any form of alignment or snapping objects onto other objects, so creations are all wiggly and shabby. They show a lovely bridge simply modelled from repeated blocks. Trying the same, it's nigh impossible to align everything nicely using the analogue rotation. Controls fairly awkward and are going to take quite a lot of getting used to thanks to multiple button combos. Motion control on the DS4 seems compulsory and there's lots of drift, and pressing the shoulder buttons causes your hands and thus the game object to move.

 

[goonergaz]

Turns out the noise is a film-grain post effect and can be disabled completely. Tutorials are pretty limited. So far they haven't talked about any form of alignment or snapping objects onto other objects, so creations are all wiggly and shabby. They show a lovely bridge simply modelled from repeated blocks. Trying the same, it's nigh impossible to align everything nicely using the analogue rotation. Controls fairly awkward and are going to take quite a lot of getting used to thanks to multiple button combos. Motion control on the DS4 seems compulsory and there's lots of drift, and pressing the shoulder buttons causes your hands and thus the game object to move.

The tutorials will cover the snapping (I'm fairly certain) - they start off slow but do ramp up. I agree regarding the creating the bridge - I struggled and think that's where practice (and VR) will help.

£25 for this is a steal!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm hoping they cover it in the 'art' tutorial. The stuff up till then, apart from the basics on using the tools, is gameplay and logic. Seems to me the most important thing to get right up front is the creation, so a player can have an idea for a something, even basic like a tree or rough face, and can create it. I think that barrier to entry has to be low low low. At the moment, I'm faced with a blank canvas. Other than blocks and donuts, I have very little control over it. I cannot create a basic house with aligned walls. I cannot create a nice rocket even. There's a cylinder, and a cone to put on top of it, and the cone doesn't snap to the surface of the sphere. Nothing is 'solid'. I think that's something really important to have from the beginning as it's intuitive. You pick up a block and put it on another block, it'll stack rather than pass through. Using geometry as brushes would then be a more advanced step, rather than the other way around.

 

[orangpelupa]

the "player" control with dual-moves are awkward as heck. for the creative mode, its much better. still on the 2nd tut tho hahaha (the one after moving a bridge below you to elevator)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

One problem I have with the modelling is I've some experience of a host of 3D solutions, from Z-Brush to SDS modelling, and even LBP. In LBP, you draw shapes and it creates an object, as you draw. You can easy draw a nose or eye. Dreams isn't working that way. It's pasting discrete geometry. Reminds me of CSG modelling back in the 90s. And if only the damned cursor wouldn't keep wobbling!

 

[goonergaz]

I'm hoping they cover it in the 'art' tutorial. The stuff up till then, apart from the basics on using the tools, is gameplay and logic. Seems to me the most important thing to get right up front is the creation, so a player can have an idea for a something, even basic like a tree or rough face, and can create it. I think that barrier to entry has to be low low low. At the moment, I'm faced with a blank canvas. Other than blocks and donuts, I have very little control over it. I cannot create a basic house with aligned walls. I cannot create a nice rocket even. There's a cylinder, and a cone to put on top of it, and the cone doesn't snap to the surface of the sphere. Nothing is 'solid'. I think that's something really important to have from the beginning as it's intuitive. You pick up a block and put it on another block, it'll stack rather than pass through. Using geometry as brushes would then be a more advanced step, rather than the other way around.

I assume you haven't done the art tutorial for the house with grass, smoke and stream? Oh man, you're in for a treat!

the "player" control with dual-moves are awkward as heck. for the creative mode, its much better. still on the 2nd tut tho hahaha (the one after moving a bridge below you to elevator)

Again, practice (by all accounts) makes perfect.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, just done the art tutorial. I think they should start with that one as it's easy and impactful. Like starting someone on art with 'painting by number' instead of 'sculpting in clay sat on a 1950s spin-drier with bungee-chord attached or ones hands'. I'm two steps into the sculpting tute and the controls really are awkward. The screenshot shows a convincing hollowed-out trunk. I can splat down some cylinders and very slowly and clumsily hollow out some bits. I was expecting tools like extrude along a path, so you could just draw a branch (even that's bloody difficulty in 3D with the motion controls) and have a cross-section extended, or grab a surface and extrude or push.

Early days yet.

 

[orangpelupa]

Sculpting will be so fun in VR.

I only make wei d stuff in harmonix VR and its already fun

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, just done the art tutorial. I think they should start with that one as it's easy and impactful. Like starting someone on art with 'painting by number' instead of 'sculpting in clay sat on a 1950s spin-drier with bungee-chord attached or ones hands'. I'm two steps into the sculpting tute and the controls really are awkward. The screenshot shows a convincing hollowed-out trunk. I can splat down some cylinders and very slowly and clumsily hollow out some bits. I was expecting tools like extrude along a path, so you could just draw a branch (even that's bloody difficulty in 3D with the motion controls) and have a cross-section extended, or grab a surface and extrude or push.

Early days yet.

From my experience literally everything you think should be in there turns out to be in there. It’s just that there is so much! You’re currently looking for the grid features for instance. Even those are amazing imho. But also the analog button modifier for movement scale and so on.

I tried both controller and dual move. The controller is easier to get into and you have all sorts of precision while the pointing still also works really well. They will still also add a non motion interface to everything though.

But ultimately I do think the dual move wins.

 

[goonergaz]

Yeah, just done the art tutorial. I think they should start with that one as it's easy and impactful. Like starting someone on art with 'painting by number' instead of 'sculpting in clay sat on a 1950s spin-drier with bungee-chord attached or ones hands'. I'm two steps into the sculpting tute and the controls really are awkward. The screenshot shows a convincing hollowed-out trunk. I can splat down some cylinders and very slowly and clumsily hollow out some bits. I was expecting tools like extrude along a path, so you could just draw a branch (even that's bloody difficulty in 3D with the motion controls) and have a cross-section extended, or grab a surface and extrude or push.

Early days yet.

That was amazing, how easy it was to add grass, change the flow of water (etc). I totally get where you're coming from regarding the order of things and sculpting though...it is a struggle but on Resetera many had the same initial struggles and then it clicked, certainly I was struggling with the depth perception but managed to get over it (just can't recall how).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm sure it will click if you persevere. However, for the good of the game and its adoption, there can't be the same sort of barrier to entry that I'm facing. LBP was immediately accessible because the first thing you did was customise your Sackboy, and then slap stickers down. You could stick googly-eyes on springs on their head, and it was cute and funny. And you could play coop and grab and slap your teammates. Dreams is a work of art, but it has as much entertainment appeal in its offerings (as presented to me thus far) as water-colour painting or Blender. The creative aspect is not something with appeal for Joe Gamer. Meanwhile, the gamey parts I've experienced feel like game jam creations, so I couldn't recommend the game to absolute non-creatives on the merits of the myriad of fun experiences to be had just browsing other people's creations.

I'm seeing this as a great tool to create animated stories. Those would be best shared on YouTube, without someone needing a PS4 and copy of the game. The interactive element...that needs to prove itself.

Still, it's early days yet.

 

[Arwin]

This is creation only. The actual gameplay will be released later. The game can be any combination of playing and creation the designer cares for. There is certainly room for many more tutorials though but that is one of the priorities.

The Dreams version of the Home space already show a bit of what the combination could be like.

Well anyway did you play the game with the hammers? Or the pool table? There are many things in there that are pretty astounding already.

Personally I can’t wait until we get VR in create ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I played only a few levels, those showcased already. 3D space combat game was clunky. 2D Uridium game was messy and lacking. Most importantly, the 3D platforming (collect 50 rings) was kinda okay but the camera was really lacking and I'd miss jumps. The dying when falling out of camera view was super odd. 3D platforming like that benefits hugely from a vertical grounding shadow or similar.

And yes, it's early days. But, these are the creations from Media Molecule themselves. Their artwork is top notch. The minigames aren't anything worth playing in their own right. It doesn't build confidence when the guys who've spent years creating and using the tool aren't making anything better than game-jam creations. Just one creation with some quality and balance to create a real game people would actually want to play would be very welcome.

 

[goonergaz]

I'm sure it will click if you persevere. However, for the good of the game and its adoption, there can't be the same sort of barrier to entry that I'm facing. LBP was immediately accessible because the first thing you did was customise your Sackboy, and then slap stickers down. You could stick googly-eyes on springs on their head, and it was cute and funny. And you could play coop and grab and slap your teammates. Dreams is a work of art, but it has as much entertainment appeal in its offerings (as presented to me thus far) as water-colour painting or Blender. The creative aspect is not something with appeal for Joe Gamer. Meanwhile, the gamey parts I've experienced feel like game jam creations, so I couldn't recommend the game to absolute non-creatives on the merits of the myriad of fun experiences to be had just browsing other people's creations.

I'm seeing this as a great tool to create animated stories. Those would be best shared on YouTube, without someone needing a PS4 and copy of the game. The interactive element...that needs to prove itself.

Still, it's early days yet.

Yes, as Arwin says - also there's a few other great little games (if they made it through and weren't lost) - I'll see if I can get a list together.

 

[goonergaz]

I played only a few levels, those showcased already. 3D space combat game was clunky. 2D Uridium game was messy and lacking. Most importantly, the 3D platforming (collect 50 rings) was kinda okay but the camera was really lacking and I'd miss jumps. The dying when falling out of camera view was super odd. 3D platforming like that benefits hugely from a vertical grounding shadow or similar.

And yes, it's early days. But, these are the creations from Media Molecule themselves. Their artwork is top notch. The minigames aren't anything worth playing in their own right. It doesn't build confidence when the guys who've spent years creating and using the tool aren't making anything better than game-jam creations. Just one creation with some quality and balance to create a real game people would actually want to play would be very welcome.

I don't think they are all MM creations...if the ring one was a homage to sonic with a ball as your character that's not MM.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The ring one was an MM one playing as the cone, with buttons that do stuff around the level. It wasn't bad, but the gameplay was lacking especially on the bounce pads and trying to manoeuvre. The camera wasn't great. The only non-MM stuff I've looked at so far is a few characters. T-Rex was very good in how it could be moved. But even then, I immediately lamented the lack of avatar interactivity that we had with Sackboy waving his hands around.

 

[orangpelupa]

Can someone help me by pirating the motion control tutorial videos to YouTube or something?

I have horrible Internet and often it just shows blank or randomly paused for eons ....

 

[bgroovy]

I browsed around for a few hours last night. What an absolute delight!

 

[orangpelupa]

I found the direct download links for the tutorial videos! Yay!

But need to trigger each tutorial step one by one to get the link. Booo.

But! There's also API calls in json. Maybe I can use it to make a script and crawl all videos to be watched offline.

 

[goonergaz]

The ring one was an MM one playing as the cone, with buttons that do stuff around the level. It wasn't bad, but the gameplay was lacking especially on the bounce pads and trying to manoeuvre. The camera wasn't great. The only non-MM stuff I've looked at so far is a few characters. T-Rex was very good in how it could be moved. But even then, I immediately lamented the lack of avatar interactivity that we had with Sackboy waving his hands around.

Blue Marble Adventure was the one I was thinking off, Sonic the Hedgehog inspired Marble game. When I can remember others I'll list them...here's one I posted about earlier;

"In particular a level called 'A little place in outer space' is a really cool mini game. Everyone should give it a try, you are on a small planet (think Mario Galaxy size) picking up 'orbs' - once you get a set amount (can't recall how many) you unlock certain extra 'skills'. The first is a jet pack which allows quicker and easier navigation...the game really opens up then - you can even fly into space! If you have tried it but not got to the jet pack I suggest you give it another try. Unfortunately I can't find any videos of it."