Digital Foundry: Microsoft Xbox One X & S supports Freesync 2 [2017-04-11]

[arhra]

AFAIK Freesync is simply AMDs marketing name for their implementation of the HDMI 2.1 VRR (variable refresh rate) standard. It's never been a proprietary standard like Nvidia g-sync.

See HDMI 2.1 standard here. VRR is part of it: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

AMD have been offering Freesync over HDMI for a while now, ahead of the standards, as they didn't want to wait for it to finish grinding through the committee. Apparently it's implemented as a vendor-specific extension (which the HDMI spec allows for).

http://www.amd.com/Documents/freesync-hdmi.pdf

Prior to that, it was DisplayPort-only, where it was just a marketing name for VESA adaptive sync which was part of the DP1.2a standard.

Freesync over HDMI has only been implemented in a few gaming monitors, though, so for wider takeup we'll be waiting for the standard to be completely finalized and implemented in TVs (probably next year's models at this point, and while I'd like to hope they won't restrict it to the top-end models only, that seems like exactly the kind of move a TV manufacturer would pull).

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I think it's an overrated feature, especially on consoles. A steady 30fps is not inferior to fluctuating 30-40fps imo. I think it's nice feature to have, but I don't see it as essential, not even close.

 

[iroboto]

I think it's an overrated feature, especially on consoles. A steady 30fps is not inferior to fluctuating 30-40fps imo. I think it's nice feature to have, but I don't see it as essential, not even close.

no tearing and no judder on all titles is overrated?
hmm... I would disagree. Not all titles go 2 for 2.

 

[shiznit]

I have to disagree. I'm very sensitive to 30fps blur and I get a headache playing many 30fps console games. If they could run unlocked in the 40-50fps range without tearing I would consider buying the console version. You also get much better latency for multiplayer and devs don't have to worry about scaling their game to the CPU cost of maintaining 60fps on weak Jaguar cores.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I haven't seen bad tearing in console games very often. They do pretty good job in holding steady 30fps with no judder. Scorpio might have the juice to run many 30fps games at 40-50fps unlocked, but at that point further optimizing to steady 60fps would be a lot better. 40-50fps in general is so far above 30, that it probably doesn't happen too often.

edit:

This tech could bring us steady 45fps for example though, that'd be good.

 

[dobwal]

I'm torn on features like these.

On one hand, it's great because it can help preserve image consistency when frame rendering goes over budget, but on the other won't it sort of encourage the devs to care about stable framerate less? Especially on a console like Scorpio that - let's face it - only has enough grunt to render a full 4K image with settings and techniques available on XB1/PS4 in 1080p/900p. How soon before devs will try to improve shadows, draw distances, LODs, AO, lighting, DoF, etc. at the expense of going from 60 to 50fps because Freesync will help it make less noticeable to the eye, but the negative effect on response time remains?

Still, at this point this is just a concern because I doubt that over the lifetime of Scorpio market share of Freesync-supporting TVs will be significant. But it's clever for AMD neverhteless to push that technology on MS - I'd not be surprised if they incurred the costs themselves - to try to establish Freesync as a potential future standard for variable framerate TVs.

Given that the word on the street is that MS is discouraging devs from having Scorpio ports running at lower frame rates than Xbox one ports and our limited exposure of games running of Scorpio is DF and MS claims it can do Forza Apex at 4K res, 4k textures at Xbox settings with plenty of room, your concerns may prove unwarranted.

Never know though but MS has expressed that they are working with TV manufacturers in attempt to ensure that Scorpio's variable refresh solution works on most TVs that will support HDMI 2.1 VRR feature.

 

[dobwal]

AFAIK Freesync is simply AMDs marketing name for their implementation of the HDMI 2.1 VRR (variable refresh rate) standard. It's never been a proprietary standard like Nvidia g-sync.

See HDMI 2.1 standard here. VRR is part of it: http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

AMD might not control the standard (called Adaptive Sync) but if I'm not mistaken they do control the marketing brand and you must pay AMD to qualify your solution before they allow you to use their logo on your product.

 

[AlNom]

This tech could bring us steady 45fps for example though, that'd be good.

Mmhm.

The key thing is consistency since that is what your gaming mind will want when controlling your character. Having a fluctuating controller response is shit regardless of how it's presented.

 

[iroboto]

Mmhm.

The key thing is consistency since that is what your gaming mind will want when controlling your character. Having a fluctuating controller response is shit regardless of how it's presented.

This doesn't apply to north of 60 as much. Going from 144 to 100 not a big deal. 144 to 60 might give you a small headache. If your monitor can support the whole range. 60-30 is painful though.

 

[egoless]

I am definitely going to buy Scorpio when it comes out. If it supports Freesync, it will affect my next TV purchase. I am still using an old Panasonic 1080p plasma. Waiting for 4K HDR OLEDs to drop in price (and HDR tech to mature). Scorpio launch would be an excellent time to upgrade my TV to 4K/HDR/Freesync, if good reasonably priced models with these features are available.

Such models will probably arrive sooner rather than later so get your wallet ready.

Gammill says that Scorpio will support variable refresh rate (which is part of the not-yet-ratified HDMI 2.1 spec) and work with FreeSync monitors; moreover, that Microsoft is working with TV manufacturers to try and ensure Scorpio will support the feature in as many TVs as possible.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Project_Scorpio_and_its_brandnew_dev_kit.php

 

[specwarGP2]

Is Freesync over HDMI dependent on HDMI 2.1? That wasn't my understanding. I know Freesync over HDMI monitors are rare, or even non-existent.

Freesync works on HDMI 1.4a - 2.0x. As other posters have mentioned, Freesync is really AMD's branding for VRR (like how Sony calls it's version of HDMI-CEC "Bravia Link"). You don't even need a Freesync branded monitor to get it to work. All that is required is a dynamic scaler in the monitor.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

AMD might not control the standard (called Adaptive Sync) but if I'm not mistaken they do control the marketing brand and you must pay AMD to qualify your solution before they allow you to use their logo on your product.

Yes, to use the FreeSync brand, a manufacturer has to go through AMD. To enable adaptive sync (VRR) on a display doesn't require going through AMD. I have a 2nd tier Korean import monitor which has adaptive sync enabled but does not use the FreeSync branding. VRR got patched into the monitor firmware a few months after the monitor was released onto the market. Works fine with the GPUs supporting VESA adaptive sync (FreeSync).

Regards,
SB

 

[sebbbi]

The key thing is consistency since that is what your gaming mind will want when controlling your character. Having a fluctuating controller response is shit regardless of how it's presented.

With VRR you could do consistent 45 fps. Target stable 45 fps in both game logic and rendering. Sample controller at 45 fps (or two times per frame at 90 fps if your game logic allows that). No tearing, no judder, no controller lag.

 

[tuna]

I think it's an overrated feature, especially on consoles. A steady 30fps is not inferior to fluctuating 30-40fps imo. I think it's nice feature to have, but I don't see it as essential, not even close.

Have you tried Gsync/Freesync 30-40 fps?

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[DuckThor Evil]

Have you tried Gsync/Freesync 30-40 fps?

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I've seen it in action, but not with a fps-counter, the frames were higher than that though... It's nice, especially on the PC, with consoles there are less configurations, so it's easier to target steady framerates, which are very pleasant, but steady 45fps would be a nice addition to consoles as well.

 

[sebbbi]

VRR is much better than the alternatives when you occasionally drop your 60 fps vsync lock.

Alternatives to VRR:
- Hard vsync: When frame exceeds 16.6 ms wait for next vsync. Some frames are visible for 16.6 ms, some frames are visible for 33.3 ms. This causes visible judder. Also in sections where all frames slightly miss their target, you drop straight to locked 30 fps.
- Soft vsync: Tear frame upper part when vsync is missed. Not a problem if occasionally missing frames (can't see the issue), but constant 50 fps for example doesn't look good (clearly visible tear line).

With VRR you don't get juddering or tearing. And the frame rate never drops to half (60->30). VRR allows the developer to be closer to their budget limit. Traditionally 60 fps locked game needs to render at least 70 frames per second to ensure you never miss vsync when perf spikes occur. With VRR you can have tighter limits as infrequent drops below 60 fps aren't causing severe problems. This means that you can spend some of that 20% margin to improve the visuals. You are still 60 fps locked 90%+ of the time, but the remaining up to 10% doesn't look awful.

 

[Rurouni]

I'm thinking that when a game mostly achieve stable frame rate at an odd fps (like 55 or something), they can cap the max fps at that rate instead of forcing the game to run at 60fps.

 

[tuna]

I'm thinking that when a game mostly achieve stable frame rate at an odd fps (like 55 or something), they can cap the max fps at that rate instead of forcing the game to run at 60fps.

Why would you need to cap the max fps?

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[Rurouni]

If it ran mostly stable at 55fps, probably it is better to cap it at that rate so the fps don't fluctuate thus more consistent experience. Of course you can cap it at 60 and let the game ran between 55 to 60. I don't think most people will feel the difference between a stable 55 vs fluctuating 55-60 fps. Personally, I would like to cap it at 55 and let the console ran cooler.

 

[iroboto]

Why would you need to cap the max fps?

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Depending on the technology, tearing will occur if frame rate exceeds the monitor refresh. So you will need something to keep it under control in those situations.