Is the X86 architecture a good option for Next-Gen handhelds? (Microsoft Xboy?)

[Npl]

Code density... It's still better even when you're strictly compiling ARM in thumb and don't have to deal with switching between thumb and full ARM instructions. The only comparable ISAs in terms of code density were M86k/Coldfire (which IMO is worlds better than x86 as an ISA goes) and personal favorites of mine, SuperH, and MCORE.

How much of an advantage are we talking here?
I doubt it can be a big difference, given that x86 will push and pop to stack relentlessly and needs to copy registers (vs RISC-typical 3-operand instructions, lack of registers, and having some idiotic stuff like forcing shift-amount in a specific register). I`d think that using Thumb or MIPS16 would come pretty close or even have higher density, but I lack any empirical evidence to back my guesses up . Do you have some data about it?

 

[eastmen]

How would the waternoose or xenon or x360 cpu (whatever you want to call it ) compare to this cpu on the same process node. Obviously you wouldn't want to run it at 3.2 ghz but how about a scaled back version. Ms owns that design if i remember correctly and i'm sure they would want to leverage that as best they could

 

[Fafalada]

Like the PS2, does the machine use it's main engine for both normal CPU functions and geometry with a seperate 2D graphics system?

PS2 doesn't have dedicated 2d hardware, neither does the PSP. Not sure what you mean by "engine for CPU functions" either.

As for your other question, I think you meant CPU, not GPUs. PSP has a dual core R4000(symmetrical cores, but one has VFPU attached), it's all nicely documented in official Press releases.

Now the VFPU does indeed add a whole level of performance that IMO bitchslaps a PIII 600, but that's only for vector ops.

One could note there's two MIPS cores as well. If you stack the whole thing against P3 in geometry benchmarks, you'd need the whole 1.2Ghz to keep up.

 

[aaaaa00]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/apx_2500.html
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM11MPCoreMultiprocessor.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsYFXGKUIpE

 

[Entropy]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/apx_2500.html
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM11MPCoreMultiprocessor.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsYFXGKUIpE

Not quite sure what you're saying. If you wanted to suggest other possibilities for handheld devices, you could also have linked to ARMs Cortex A9 line, described here
http://www.arm.com/pdfs/ARMCortexA-9Processors.pdf
There are a bunch of options though, available as IP or discrete solutions, all quite suited to handheld designs.

The different cores and graphics options for handhelds usually use IP that can be lisenced, and complete solutions are produced by a number of of players, or you can roll your own and fab at TSMC (for instance). So there is both the option of getting a prebaked solution in a chip (for example the OMAPs) or if you find it suitable/profitable you can go more custom. Intels model is more of a PC CPU+chipset kind of deal where you buy the necessary chips from Intel, the sole supplier.

So there is not only the issue of being technically suitable (which I'd argue the Silverthorne products aren't), but also a case of different business models to be reconciled.
Both Sony and Nintendo have their own solutions (Sony more so) and if Apples iPods/iPhones become a games platform of note (remains to be seen but doubtful), it is an example of ARM core + PowerVR + tons of bits and bobs on a single SoC.

What I haven't understood is why a handheld games console manufacturer would turn to x86 unless they wanted to run Vista on it. Not only can't I see a convincing argument overall, I just can't see a reason at all.

 

[Mobius1aic]

PS2 doesn't have dedicated 2d hardware, neither does the PSP. Not sure what you mean by "engine for CPU functions" either.

As for your other question, I think you meant CPU, not GPUs. PSP has a dual core R4000(symmetrical cores, but one has VFPU attached), it's all nicely documented in official Press releases.


One could note there's two MIPS cores as well. If you stack the whole thing against P3 in geometry benchmarks, you'd need the whole 1.2Ghz to keep up.

What I meant is if the PSP works similarily to the PS2 (Emotion Engine + Graphics synthesizer) to create 3D scenes? Emotion Engine handled geometry on one of the VUs and the graphics synthesizer handled pixel fillrate correct? That's what I'm trying to figure out with the PSP.

 

[Simon F]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsYFXGKUIpE

I saw a similar report on the BBC's Click program and it amused me. They seemed to concentrate on this, a technology demo, when there are already real devices out in the market.

 

[Fafalada]

What I meant is if the PSP works similarily to the PS2

Typical graphic processing flow on PSP is much closer to GCN then PS2.

Strictly related to ram configuration, it kinda borrows best of both worlds. If only bus architecture was originally engineered for external DRam, it would have been the perfect little machine.

 

[taucias]

After the cost issues with the original XBox, I can't see them using something they can't buy the manufacturing rights to.

 

[PS3MAN]

Rather than Xboy idea. I think MS will target Windows Mobile OS's Games. It's can be done now and take a little bit budget for invest compare to " XBoy" idea, isn't it?

 

[Mobius1aic]

In my mind I see the Xboy being some kind of oragami like device built for games in mind, but would still retain all the practicality of hand held computer. Just a much better GPU for those games.

 

[corysama]

An article bubbled up on reddit that almost directly addresses this topic.

http://codingrelic.geekhold.com/2008/03/embedded-processors.html