Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2015]

[London Geezer]

Looking forward to the lawsuit from some guy who expected a 60fps game to have all parts of the pipeline work at 60fps.

 

[function]

Just to point out - because I'm a boring asshole - that animation has traditionally not been linked to render/raster rates e.g. sprite based games never tied animation and raster 1:1.

But yeah, would be nicer to have everything consistent. In most 60 fps games though, the animation rate often drops to 30 fps because everything has dropped to 30 fps (33ms = 30 fps). In the 3D age people are used to seeing all the shits hit all the the fans at once.

 

[AlNom]

Most?

Anyways, It's jarring. I'm trying to reconcile the 60fps "necessity" with this. Just give me an option for 30fps rendering (i.e. higher average resolution + total consistency with animation LOD).

 

[Scott_Arm]

I want an option where the characters animate at 10fps, so they look like characters from Wolfenstein3D walking around.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Tearaway had ~10 fps animations on some aspects that looked like a stop-frame animation, but though convincing, it clashed with the 'smooth' 30 fps movement. I guess the extreme example is Pacman, at something like a 1 or 2 fps animation on a 60 fps motion refresh. No-one complained about that one.

 

[Gubbi]

I want an option where the characters animate at 10fps, so they look like characters from Wolfenstein3D walking around.

And they scream "Mein leben!" when you kill 'em.

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I guess the extreme example is Pacman, at something like a 1 or 2 fps animation on a 60 fps motion refresh. No-one complained about that one.

4 animation frames on the original arcade version but Pacman cabients used a low persistance CRT so the natural bluring made all of the animation appear smoother and helped the ghosts slight trails when Pacman ate a powerpill and they went into high speed evade mode.

That's why nobody complained but I digress..

 

[iroboto]

I checked around in this thread for the link but didn't see it. So here is UC4 MP DF Video

Honestly, the video was quite 'kind'. Had this MP been released 2 years ago, the tone would have been much more negative, at least imo. Perhaps this is signalling a new DF direction, one that uses language so that it's videos are meant for educational purposes and not cannon fodder for console wars.

 

[Clukos]

The performance in that video is all over the place but they do say it runs a lot better on the showfloor at PGW (probably different builds?). I think we'll have to wait till December and play the beta to truly judge how the game is shaping up in multiplayer. From the videos shown i think it looks great and the gameplay and level design are really well done. Visually, lighting and animation stand out, almost no lod pop-in, very nice particle effects with the only two clear drawbacks currently being the framerate and the resolution(which probably won't change).

Edit: Gif from gaf
http://i.imgur.com/ADh2bDS.gif

 

[Scott_Arm]

That rope swinging. Looks so cool.

 

[Rangers]

I checked around in this thread for the link but didn't see it. So here is UC4 MP DF Video

Honestly, the video was quite 'kind'. Had this MP been released 2 years ago, the tone would have been much more negative, at least imo. Perhaps this is signalling a new DF direction, one that uses language so that it's videos are meant for educational purposes and not cannon fodder for console wars.

Literally the only discussion of the well below 60, more like 40-45, framerate was "it's going to be better by release, we really think/hope so, dont worry about this" repeated over and over. I hope other games get the same treatment...it's fair to mention for sure, and I believe they did so for Halo 5, but it just came off kind of strong there like damage control. Also if the showfloor build was much better, why not run that footage through the analyzer (if it's possible with offscreen). Otherwise I guess they are relying on word of mouth, and that's pretty dicey if laypeople are trying to parse 45 FPS vs 60.

I cant imagine Naughty Dog promising 60 FPS and releasing in that state, so I'd expect SOME improvement at the very least.

The graphics are very impressive IMO though, although the video is "weird" or cartoony the way it's edited.

 

[chris1515]

Literally the only discussion of the well below 60, more like 40-45, framerate was "it's going to be better by release, we really think/hope so, dont worry about this" repeated over and over. I hope other games get the same treatment...it's fair to mention for sure, and I believe they did so for Halo 5, but it just came off kind of strong there like damage control. Also if the showfloor build was much better, why not run that footage through the analyzer (if it's possible with offscreen). Otherwise I guess they are relying on word of mouth, and that's pretty dicey if laypeople are trying to parse 45 FPS vs 60.

I cant imagine Naughty Dog promising 60 FPS and releasing in that state, so I'd expect SOME improvement at the very least.

The graphics are very impressive IMO though, although the video is "weird" or cartoony the way it's edited.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-uncharted-4-multiplayer-hands-on

The video is from qn old build, the PGW build is much better

Thankfully, the Uncharted 4 build we played on the show floor at Paris Games Week actually turns in a more consistent 60 frames per second. There are still dips below 50fps in the playable build but it's nowhere near as inconsistent as the pre-release media implies. As a milestone in development, it's interesting to see this video, perhaps showing this multiplayer mode at a much earlier stage. However, already we've seen much smoother results in person - and from the show floor, 60fps is hit most of the time, with occasional dips lower.

Backed by a great use of object motion blur, the results are perceptibly smooth in this jungle level, and give us nothing close to the stuttering play of the video. That said, we experienced one case of a similar drop - an anomaly we couldn't repeat again - giving a sensation of play closer to 45fps. This occurred in a central jungle spot where previously we saw no drops whatsoever, and yet out of the blue it began to stutter quite heavily for a long stretch. It's a symptom of an early build, and otherwise gameplay proved very smooth. The ability to run, roll, and adjust the aiming reticle at a 60Hz refresh makes a world of difference compared to previous Uncharted multiplayer modes. Even in this early form, the promise of sharper, more responsive movement makes sense, especially given this mode's rapid pace.

 

[shredenvain]

Just watched the 2 DF videos on Youtube. Gotta say, still looks good, even with the restrictions placed on the developer by 60Hz refresh. But... on the other hand, the VERY low LOD bias, the VERY low shadow distance and resolution, as well as the VERY low textures in places... it's really sad that it's so inconsistent. Would love to play it on PC... but even with MS touting more PC love (which they do on an annual basis), it isn't going to happen.

The dynamic resolution isn't as noticeable, at least with "Youtube AA".

Don't let the video fool you. The shadow and asset loads are not a constant occurrence like the video leafs you to believe. I'm up to mission 7 in the campaign and I have only noticed occasional load pop in. Maybe once per mission. The textures on the ground do have a low quality look in several places though.

Update. OK mission 7 does have a more severe load issue now that I have played it more.

 

[DrJay24]

Damage control for a game not out for five months? They already have a better performing build since that video, have faith in ND. People said the same crap about The Order 1886, the final game had no performance issues. Optimization is the last step.

 

[Cjail]

Inside Digital Foundry: how we measure console frame rates:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-how-we-measure-console-frame-rate

I am disappointed: no fairy dust, no magic, not even a bit of questioning the dead or voodoo.
Disappointing.

In my days we always asked the stars.

 

[Newguy]

Face-Off: Need for Speed

"The core assets and extensive effects work mostly translates to an equal standard across both versions of Need for Speed, with the same range of graphical features deployed on both PS4 and Xbox One."

"There are more unusual variances in other areas though; in some scenes we see the PS4 lacking an extra normal map and texture layer used on Xbox One to add details to puddles of water in the ground on wet surfaces, while light sources sometimes appear brighter and feature a stronger bloom component."

"PS4 inches ahead due to the extra clarity provided by the native 1080p resolution, but there's nothing you're really likely to actually miss, especially during fast action gameplay. In this sense, the two games are effectively identical - an already soft game on PS4 looks just a little softer on Xbox One."

 

[Globalisateur]

Face-Off: Need for Speed

"The core assets and extensive effects work mostly translates to an equal standard across both versions of Need for Speed, with the same range of graphical features deployed on both PS4 and Xbox One."

"There are more unusual variances in other areas though; in some scenes we see the PS4 lacking an extra normal map and texture layer used on Xbox One to add details to puddles of water in the ground on wet surfaces, while light sources sometimes appear brighter and feature a stronger bloom component."

"PS4 inches ahead due to the extra clarity provided by the native 1080p resolution, but there's nothing you're really likely to actually miss, especially during fast action gameplay. In this sense, the two games are effectively identical - an already soft game on PS4 looks just a little softer on Xbox One."

Don't forget:

- Better LOD on PS4

PS4 gains a small advantage with regards to level of detail streaming, where distant scenery is resolved to a higher degree across the environment

- Better AO on PS4

Ambient occlusion is also given a more advanced implementation on the PS4

- Identical framerate

In our performance tests, the games are effectively like-for-like

a closer lock on visual parity...with the same range of graphical features deployed on both PS4 and Xbox One

 

[London Geezer]

I wonder whether we'll still need to state the obvious every time in the next few years. Xb1 version slightly lower res, slightly toned down effects, feels pretty much the same but at marginally lower settings.
I mean, it's really nothing new and unlikely to change so I'm not sure why DF even bother producing all these almost copy&paste analyses.

Ok, party pooper leaving now. Bye.

 

[Recop]

I wonder whether we'll still need to state the obvious every time in the next few years. Xb1 version slightly lower res, slightly toned down effects, feels pretty much the same but at marginally lower settings.
I mean, it's really nothing new and unlikely to change so I'm not sure why DF even bother producing all these almost copy&paste analyses.

Ok, party pooper leaving now. Bye.

Many people still think the gap will narrow...

 

[iroboto]

Many people still think the gap will narrow...

I'm a believer that it still could. I'm not sure what the upper limits of either console are, so I'd rather just wait and see. If by the time next gen swings around and that gap never closed, it never closed. But about 2013 October is when both released, and Xbox has made huge strides in performance in a very short amount of time. You can't say it hasn't closed since launch. The question is how much more or if it widens.