Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2013]

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Actually no, devs definitely do not have low level access to Durango hardware.

But they didn't on 360 either, and it didn't matter.

You dont really need it, I think, to extract maximum performance from a console. The API is already super light.

This was the situation on 360, Sebbi covered it. Is the situation on Durango going to be different, the API much thicker? If you think so, please enlighten us.

The idea that MS is going to make devs go through DX11 is what I think is likely wrong. It doesnt even make any sense at all. For what, so they can write Windows phone 8 games at the same time? Really? Nobody cares, and it's on it's face stupid, you dont program for a phone and a console at the same time. And Microsoft doesn't even care about indies, probably rightfully imo.

There's always indies whining about how XBLA doesn't accept them or whatever, I think that's by design. Xbox is like the mass market store, it's highly curated, and there can only be so many XBLA games released. They dont really need nor want low budget indies on there. Indie's should go through other channels, like PC.
 
Head2Head: Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor’s Edge Demo Screenshot Comparison
(Link)

the 360 version improved a bit. the fxaa is used sparingly and when in use it's not as intense as what it was before. for everything else the comparison shows lighter vs darker. black crush is on both but is lighter on 360 it seems.

360
http://oi49.tinypic.com/erjtpf.jpg
ps3
http://oi45.tinypic.com/35btlkp.jpg

regardless of the lighting preferences Razor’s Edge contains a 3 slider contrast, gamma, and brightness adjuster.
 
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But they didn't on 360 either, and it didn't matter.

You dont really need it, I think, to extract maximum performance from a console. The API is already super light.

This was the situation on 360, Sebbi covered it. Is the situation on Durango going to be different, the API much thicker? If you think so, please enlighten us.

I'll answer you in the Durango HW thread
 
they forgot to as how much performance drop if they use AA for AC, I keep hearing MSAA is suppose to be cheap on the system but yet no one uses it.
 
they forgot to as how much performance drop if they use AA for AC, I keep hearing MSAA is suppose to be cheap on the system but yet no one uses it.
It seems like many games use deferred shading/lighting, which makes is a lot more costly.
I wonder if forward+ would be more feasible for vita.
 
It seems like many games use deferred shading/lighting, which makes is a lot more costly.
I wonder if forward+ would be more feasible for vita.

ya, I remember the Need for Speed article, they ditched deferred render for 4XMSAA. Wonder if FXAA or any post AA is feasible, but for such low resolution, even vita native res, it doesn't seems like it will work very well.
 
ya, I remember the Need for Speed article, they ditched deferred render for 4XMSAA. Wonder if FXAA or any post AA is feasible, but for such low resolution, even vita native res, it doesn't seems like it will work very well.

What about LBP? LBP has good AA solution.

Besides, LBP is rendered at sub-native resolution while user interface is native. Is this method (native UI + sub-native game) already popular? I don't remember what games uses this technique. If it is not popular, where does the difficulty come from?
 
What about LBP? LBP has good AA solution.

Besides, LBP is rendered at sub-native resolution while user interface is native. Is this method (native UI + sub-native game) already popular? I don't remember what games uses this technique. If it is not popular, where does the difficulty come from?

does LBP use deferred render? yeah, I remember the game looks amazing on vita, maybe even cleaner than LBP2 on PS3.
 
Sounds like its horribly optimised. Recommending a Titan for graphics virtually indistiguishable from the console versions? I'm sure if you dial back the details the game performs just fine on moderate hardware but if you're going to require such insane amounts of power for relatively tiny visual upgrades then you really shouldn't bother.

Bring on the next generation!
 
The game runs great, everything max including Physx and Tessellation at 1080p gets me an average of 40FPS and the only place in the whole game where it went below 30 was this one area before the last level for a very short time. My PC runs a GTX580 and first gen i7 950.

The game is better optimised than the first game mainly because they've done away with packing a scene with tons of real time, shadow casting lights, like they did in the first game. They use a lot of lens flares and glows (aesthetically pleasing and missing from first game) to mimic the lights whenever they want to show a scene with multiple lights in a location. That's not to say the game doesn't gives you options to play with it's lightsources because an awful lot of them are destructible or can be switched on/off.
 
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Sounds like its horribly optimised. Recommending a Titan for graphics virtually indistiguishable from the console versions? I'm sure if you dial back the details the game performs just fine on moderate hardware but if you're going to require such insane amounts of power for relatively tiny visual upgrades then you really shouldn't bother.

Bring on the next generation!

Maybe this had something to do with it:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/15/4a-games-working-conditions/

Sounds like less than ideal working conditions.
 
The game runs great, everything max including Physx and Tessellation at 1080p gets me an average of 40FPS and the only place in the whole game where it went below 30 was this one area before the last level for a very short time. My PC runs a GTX580 and first gen i7 950.

The game is better optimised than the first game mainly because they've done away with packing a scene with tons of real time, shadow casting lights, like they did in the first game. They use a lot of lens flares and glows (aesthetically pleasing and missing from first game) to mimic the lights whenever they want to show a scene with multiple lights in a location. That's not to say the game doesn't gives you options to play with it's lightsources because an awful lot of them are destructible or can be switched on/off.

Your performance does not fit my experience. How do you measure fps? Did you do the benchmark provided in the metro ll folder?

I have a 670 and get 50 average at 1080p without tesselation and PhysX. PhysX and tesselation on very high kills performance...so I wonder how you get 40fps average?!?!

And there is some weird stuttering. Although getting 57Hz average, there are some situations as low as 9fps...game is weird performane wise.
 
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Your performance does not fit my experience. How do you measure fps? Did you do the benchmark provided in the metro ll folder?

I have a 670 and get 50 average at 1080p without tesselation and PhysX. PhysX and tesselation on very high kills performance...so I wonder how you get 40fps average?!?!

And there is some weird stuttering. Although getting 57Hz average, there are some situations as low as 9fps...game is weird performane wise.
Fraps

And I'm really not sure.
Have you tried the drivers released for Metro ? I did get dips but the thing stayed over 40 for the most part. I know it's working because I do see particles bounce/move about and round shapes (and boobs) thanks to tessellation. But I'm really not sure how it "kills" performance for you. Even this benchmark here says that without physx and tessellation my card is suppose to give you a minimum of 40FPS in the most extensive firefights.
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/metro-last-light-graphics-breakdown-and-performance-guide

With your card you should be averaging around 45 with everything turned on including Physx and Tessellation.
 
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Your performance does not fit my experience. How do you measure fps? Did you do the benchmark provided in the metro ll folder?

I have a 670 and get 50 average at 1080p without tesselation and PhysX. PhysX and tesselation on very high kills performance...so I wonder how you get 40fps average?!?!

And there is some weird stuttering. Although getting 57Hz average, there are some situations as low as 9fps...game is weird performane wise.

I also have a 670 and got 40 fps avg, with everything maxed out at 1080p and physx on. The actually gameplay, I hit i close to 60fps or above 50 fps in most cases as long as I do stealth gameplay.
 
The game is better optimised than the first game mainly because they've done away with packing a scene with tons of real time, shadow casting lights, like they did in the first game. They use a lot of lens flares and glows (aesthetically pleasing and missing from first game) to mimic the lights whenever they want to show a scene with multiple lights in a location. That's not to say the game doesn't gives you options to play with it's lightsources because an awful lot of them are destructible or can be switched on/off.

Does it still have shadow casting muzzle flashes and flashlights ? I have the xbox version of the first game and it had all of that .... everything casts real time shadows .
 
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