Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2012]
- Thread starter AlNom
- Start date
-
- Tags
- digital foundry
- Status
I have the same suspect. I have downloaded FXAA tools on my pc & it works really worse compared to console, even at high resolution mode. I can't understand what's gone wrong in my setting. Even in the game with its own FXAA, it's almost useless. It's an AMD fault?
Ot: where I could find SMAA filter? I'm curious to try on my modest 6750.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
It's Naughty Dog's presentation. Laugh all you want.
You're comparing a first party team with a smaller third party developer...
It's Naughty Dog's presentation. Laugh all you want.
It makes no sense to compare a studio who only has one platform to worry about to another studio who has to optimize for three different platforms.
Last edited by a moderator:
It does when you're just trying to get an idea of what is possible. AlStrong says BD2 is taking 3ms for SSAO. We have other games managing SSAO in 1ms. when we have such discrepancies between games, we can if we want consider why they exist, which may be a lot of reason from lack of hardware resources available due to consumption elsewhere, lack of experience or quality by the developers (which also extends to the engine developers when using middleware), poor project management impacting the developers' ability to implement intended features, and whatever other reasons.
I certainly think it's worth noting that Borderlands 2 is lacking a lot of IQ techniques commonplace on console games. It has zero AA, not even post FX, and zero SSAO, and a low framerate and massive tearing to boot on PS3. It's clearly overloading the hardware, but is that due to design choices in the content, or a lack of efficiency in the engine? It'd be interesting to learn where the issues lie, for every middleware engine as they are important components in the console game space now. Sadly, that's hard to thrash out when every such discussion turns into a fanboy war, so I guess we'll never know.
Seems more like a time, money, engine, issue. But then Gears of War 3 launched with no AA too. I can't say it's the fault of the engine since Mass Effect 3 shipped with FXAA for both consoles.
Running SSAA on Boarderlands 2 her on PC... Looks good....
One thing I have been wondering though and it's a little off topic, if MLAA/FXAA and SMAA were around say 10 years ago would it of been possible to implement and use it on PS2 and Xbox?
Was thinking that PS2's vector processors would be quite useful in that regards?
One thing I have been wondering though and it's a little off topic, if MLAA/FXAA and SMAA were around say 10 years ago would it of been possible to implement and use it on PS2 and Xbox?
Was thinking that PS2's vector processors would be quite useful in that regards?
Thank you for your post, really. This is what I'm tried to said but probably I'm too emotive to maintain the discussion in the right path, my apologies.
It's also worth noting that the PS3 version has DOF that the XB360 doesn't. It'd be very interesting to learn why, and whether those resources could have been applied elsewhere.
360 version has DOF, but interestingly the screen they took doesn't.
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/1/5/7/2/8/PS3_010.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/1/5/7/2/8/360_010.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/1/5/7/2/8/PS3_010.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2012/articles//a/1/5/1/5/7/2/8/360_010.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1280x-1
From what I have understand, DOF is more subtle & present in minor frequence.
The EG faceoff said it was absent, but I didn't check the pictures. Edit: Not absent, but pared back. Their example photos show DOF blur non-existent on XB360 for the two examples, but clearly it's a feature present in the game to some degree.
I understand there is a point in showing what a piece of hardware is capable of, but you know resources and time are not finite. So comparing a exclusive studio to a 3rd party studio is largely pointless in this sense. Or should we start harping on every 3rd party game, that has to spread their resources to multiple platforms, for not reaching graphical standards set by exclusive titles?
It's not a case of 'harping on' if you're asking for understand of why games differ. That's one of the principles to anyone wanting to discuss games/realtime graphics technology. How was this effect achieved? How does it vary with that other developer? What are the trade offs, the advantages, the difficulties faced? If an exclusive titles manages a tech, their RnD effort may be applicable to other titles, such as GOW spearheading MLAA on PS3 and that becoming a part of the PS3's libraries for devs to use. So if ND implemented SSAO into 1ms, it'd be nice to know how, and how that compares with Gearbox's efforts, and whether Gearbox could have integrated the tech themselves.
On the one hand we don't want 'lazy devs' being thrown around every time a game lacks a feature or two. But on the other, there are different qualities of games, and some don't reach the same standards as others (eg. Ghostbusters), for which fair criticism and evaluation are part of the console tech discussion. Cross-platform developers can't get carte-blanche any more than they should be tarred with the 'lazy dev' brush. What we need is understanding of the underlying tech. We rarely get that, of course, leaving us guessing and having to draw dodgy comparisons with what we see, but at least when we have actual numbers, that's some use. Gearbox taking 3ms to render SSAO on XB360 where ND (and the devs don't matter; only the results) can achieve an SSAO implementation in 1ms suggests there's room for improvement.
- Status
Similar threads
