Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

[Flappy Pannus]

Yeah no I'm not playing the screenshot game with you, but thanks anyway.

I fail to see how this is really controversial. I did not think TLOU:RM excelled in the texture department in gameplay when I was playing it on the PS5 weeks ago either, in fact I was quite a bit underwhelmed considering how much praise it got - it was more of a marginal improvement over TLOU2 than I was led to believe. I mean, a screenshot is a screenshot - there's no 'game' here really, the environment and character textures during traversal and just not that special.

Now though, cutscenes? Animation? Stellar. Both, especially animation, is quite far about A Plague's Tale. But in gameplay, the texture resolution + variety, and the size of the environments would not lead me to believe at all this game would be a monumental task for a modern PC to run.

And considering past consensus among members of this forum that turn out to be hilariously off the mark, you can imagine how much credibility I give to this forum's groupthink.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

 

[Inuhanyou]

Nobody asked them to port this game to the PC.
Using this argumentation ND should start using Raytracing (or go straight Pathtracing) and then let see how PS5 gamers will react when this new game runs in 720p with 30 FPS...

I think the solution should have been that they either gave the code to nixxes who then would be responsible for porting to PC, or they should have just ported TLOU remastered.

I feel like it is wrong to make console devs like ND make PC ports when they are clearly not used to such an environment. Let them play to their strengths and let nixxes play to theirs. Sony bought them for a reason. I seriously have no idea why ND was put in charge of this affair when Sony has the capable people right there for this specific purpose

 

[Phantom88]

It seems this port has really brought the level of discourse down to neogaf/twitter levels. "Forum groupthink"? This is one of the most rational and constructive forums out there IMO.

Where do you think the new faces with the new style of discourse come from ? Neogaf members making acounts here pretending they want to have a "discussion", but it's what's on display here.

 

[Opeth]

I think the solution should have been that they either gave the code to nixxes who then would be responsible for porting to PC, or they should have just ported TLOU remastered.

I feel like it is wrong to make console devs like ND make PC ports when they are clearly not used to such an environment. Let them play to their strengths and let nixxes play to theirs. Sony bought them for a reason. I seriously have no idea why ND was put in charge of this affair when Sony has the capable people right there for this specific purpose

I guess nixxes were busy with other projects. Are we 100% sure this wasn't Iron Galaxy and not just ND taking credit? I haven't looked into this.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I feel like it is wrong to make console devs like ND make PC ports when they are clearly not used to such an environment. Let them play to their strengths and let nixxes play to theirs. Sony bought them for a reason. I seriously have no idea why ND was put in charge of this affair when Sony has the capable people right there for this specific purpose

I feel if the parent company wants more synergy between PC and PS5 releases it only makes sense for the ND themselves to get a grasp on the PC, after all decisions made early in a game's development can have longstanding consequences for how portable the code is. So they probably feel they should get their feet wet eventually with an eye on the future to make this process easier.

BUT - at a far more reasonable schedule. Doing this under the gun to hit the mark to coincide with a TV series, and have this be their first big PC project at the same time, is of course nuts and they're paying the price for that pressure now.

I guess nixxes were busy with other projects. Are we 100% sure this wasn't Iron Galaxy and not just ND taking credit? I haven't looked into this.

ND has said it's mostly them. My own pull-out-of-my-ass theory though, based on so many similarities with this and the Iron Galaxy port of Uncharted, is that at least initially a good chunk of the code ND started with was Iron Galaxy's from their time with that game. I have no way of knowing that of course.

Where do you think the new faces with the new style of discourse come from ? Neogaf members making acounts here pretending they want to have a "discussion", but it's what's on display here.

Yeah I'm wondering what other forum linked this thread. I mean it's not like this place has gotten more popular recently, quite the opposite.

 

[chris1515]

I feel if the parent company wants more synergy between PC and PS5 releases it only makes sense for the ND themselves to get a grasp on the PC, after all decisions made early in a game's development can have longstanding consequences for how portable the code is. So they probably feel they should get their feet wet eventually with an eye on the future to make this process easier.

BUT - at a far more reasonable schedule. Doing this under the gun to hit the mark to coincide with a TV series, and have this be their first big PC project at the same time, is of course nuts and they're paying the price for that pressure now.


ND has said it's mostly them. My own pull-out-of-my-ass theory though, based on so many similarities with this and the Iron Galaxy port of Uncharted, is that at least initially a good chunk of the code ND started with was Iron Galaxy's from their time with that game. I have no way of knowing that of course.

The multiplayer game of ND is rumored to release day and date on PS4/PS5 and PC. The game need to run on PS4, I think PC will be ok.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

Like I said, it's not a big deal. Every forum falls victim to group think every now and then. It's normal. beyond3d does a much better job of keeping it in check than many others. Although I do find it weird and I am a little disappointed that everyone is piling on me while the davis fella feels free to shoot out these sarcastic, condescending and non informative comments without any members making a fuss. Take a look at what he's responding to and ask yourselves if that is the sort of dialogue is warranted or should be tolerated.

The only thing gimping PS5 games is that 2018 level PC GPU inside PS5.

You're right, PC should stop dragging these old systems (consoles) with it.

The only thing gimping PS5 games is that 2018 level PC GPU inside PS5.

You poor thing.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

I suggest you work on being impartial and unbiased in comparisons rather than worrying about what I'm saying or doing.

I will once you learn the difference between being impartial and having an opinion.

 

[davis.anthony]

I will once you learn the difference between being impartial and having an opinion.

There's having an opinion and then there's not being open to changing that opinion or respecting a different opinion instead of completely dismissing it like you have.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Take a look at what he's responding to and ask yourselves if that is the sort of dialogue is warranted or should be tolerated.

Much of that is response to another poster, one which has come in here only very recently and proceeded to shit out ever-increasingly incomprehensible streams of consciousness onto this thread.

Sure, not helping perhaps by engaging. But they're not exactly participating in Socratic debate here themselves, there were addressed fairly cordially initially, but after that last hysterical effort there's not much reasonable avenue other than mockery or ignore at this point. I'm choosing ignore myself.

Bear in mind you had one level of disagreement on texture quality, then immediately said "I can't take you seriously" as a result, then in next proceeded to insinuate the entire forum was often hilariously wrong and how little respect you had for it. Like, what kind of reaction are you expecting?

 

[I'mDudditz!]

Bear in mind you had one level of disagreement on texture quality, then immediately said "I can't take you seriously" as a result, then in next proceeded to insinuate the entire forum was often hilariously wrong and how little respect you had for it. Like, what kind of reaction are you expecting?

Come on my friend this is very inaccurate and unfair. First of all, it did not start from the discussion about textures. I corrected him about the difference between compressed game install size and uncompressed data in memory just prior and he apparently got bothered and responded with this smug comment

So it's the size of the game, thanks.

I left it alone and he's followed me around responding to an entirely different comment of mine directed at another member. Surely if you can provide davis with a pass for being sarcastic to another member who supposedly has a history, then you will offer me the same grace considering I have had to deal with his smart-ass remarks prior to any discussion about textures?

And mischaracterizing my comments about the forum is just uncalled for. I have told you twice already that was not my intention and I find this place to be much better than most. Finally, I stated I couldn't take him seriously because he was speaking in matter of fact tones for his opinions about a comparison that I believe is more subjective than he was portraying it to be. At this point I am ready to move on and I hope everyone else is too.

 

[Overstander]

Like I said, it's not a big deal. Every forum falls victim to group think every now and then. It's normal. beyond3d does a much better job of keeping it in check than many others. Although I do find it weird and I am a little disappointed that everyone is piling on me while the davis fella feels free to shoot out these sarcastic, condescending and non informative comments without any members making a fuss. Take a look at what he's responding to and ask yourselves if that is the sort of dialogue is warranted or should be tolerated.

You talk about david.anthony ?! i did not even answer to him and his bait comments. PCs of today are much more held back by older PCs like Quad Core / GTX 1060s than a Console ever could do. PS5 has even overtaken almost 70% of PC Market in terms of raw power according to Steam HS , so this was so amusing and enlightening to read. It is so telling about his angles.

 

[Nesh]

I dont think consoles are the problem. I would say that consoles, since they became very similar to PCs, made PC support much better and much easier.
Consoles used to have a ton of franchises that either never came to PC or came to PC much later. Now almost every popular console game sees a simultaneous release on PC.
For that reason during the PS360 and PS4/One era, PCs have seen the biggest support ever. Microsoft's plans to enter the console market, unify console gaming with PC gaming and grow the support of western developers have paid off for Windows.
I think PCs have hit a similar issue they have been hitting during the PS2/XBOX/GC era. Too many configurations and drivers, API's and other technical issues, have compounded so much on PC development, that it is harder for developers to hide or bypass under strict deadlines compared to the first wave of GPU standardization.

 

[davis.anthony]

I think PCs have hit a similar issue they have been hitting during the PS2/XBOX/GC era. Too many configurations and drivers, API's and other technical issues, have compounded so much on PC development, that it is harder for developers to hide or bypass under strict deadlines compared to the first wave of GPU standardization.

Nail on the head there, especially as hardware from 10 years ago (especially CPU's) is still very performant today it makes it even more difficult for developers as to how far back they go in terms of hardware support.

As every historic year they support adds an extra layer of development time but also opens up more end users who can buy the game and generate revenue.

 

[troyan]

I think it has more to do with the increasing expense of developing an AAA game. 20 years ago it was much cheaper, so a port to the PC was not mandatory for the ROI.

 

[iroboto]

He says “ I think Ps5 is using High quality textures”. He then follows with “I can’t tell the difference between high and ultra textures”. So if you can’t tell the difference between both of them, how can you even make an educated guess as to which setting is which.

Historically consoles are best bang for buck type of machines. If you can’t see the difference, developers will choose the better performing option. It’s the reason we continue to move away from native to reconstruction and so forth.

In a question about texture quality, console games also must be designed with enough ceiling to ensure that locked 60fps, from
What I understand even on PS5 it does not, so why take an additional hit on textures if there is no visual difference.

Secondly, ultra settings are usually terrible in terms of value for performance, they are unoptimized and usually only available for cards with enough power to brute force, which is something that is not typically a console feature.

Sometimes consoles have custom features that selectively allow them to improve some
Items are ultra and some items below, some weird mixture of low and high, and these settings have never been available to PC.

The video didn’t need to be an hour long, 30 minutes would have sufficed.

DF does more than just reporting on things, they aim to educate. And education takes longer than some sound bites. At the end of the day, someone has to do the heavy lifting instead of rushing to put out over-sensationalized YouTube videos for the sake of monetization and getting there first.

Many people complaining about it are looking for an answer, are often looking for weaponizing data points for an argument. Taking the time to provide nuance stops a lot of that, and their core audience appreciates detail. That’s what the patron surveys are for and about.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think Sony are doing a tremendous job on getting the launch day quality of their games on par with other, more experienced PC game publishers. Bravo!

 

[iroboto]

I left it alone and he's followed me around responding to an entirely different comment of mine directed at another member. Surely if you can provide davis with a pass for being sarcastic to another member who supposedly has a history, then you will offer me the same grace considering I have had to deal with his smart-ass remarks prior to any discussion about textures?

And mischaracterizing my comments about the forum is just uncalled for.

All of us work towards becoming better posters. I don’t think you started on the best foot here, but we do welcome new posters.

Not everyone will post, but a lack of response or too much response isn’t indicative of what the forum actually thinks, most of us have been here for so long that we’ve seen and been apart of it, that seeing it again we know our newer members will go through the same process as we have.

I’m pretty sure I was pretty annoying for the longest time starting here, and a decade later you mellow out after 10,000 posts or so. You realize you don’t need to win everything or convince everyone. Some people cannot be convinced and some people will always post the same way. I know which people I will undoubtedly butt heads with, and I give tolerance for that, it’s almost expected.

Being new here, reading the forum and participating are 2 different things. Reading is just learning, participating means people will challenge you here and hard. It’s a different experience, but when you get a hold of being able to craft a message and get your point across without breaking down into attack language, the forum is quite a great experience here.

Hang in there.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The vram change between high and low is fairly small if I’m remembering correctly. The quality change is like 1/4 resolution. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

@BitByte 8GB or less are probably 80% of the market. Getting better results from medium and low would be a big improvement. High/ultra being for 10-16 GB cards is fine.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think Sony are doing a tremendous job on getting the launch day quality of their games on par with other, more experienced PC game publishers. Bravo!

Like a seasoned pc developer already, releasing launch day garbage.