Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

[Deleted member 11852]

I didnt mean only next gen patches, as see colon stated. I dont think this is true, games receive patches all the time even if they are not proper next gen version patches. Supporting title after realase is not uncommon and so far patches were free.

I think different folks are discussing different things. Just to clarify, I most recently leapt in on see colon's post and sentient of:

I don't disagree with this in concept, but it's annoying to pay for an upgrade for a game so that it can use the hardware you already purchased. Most of this update seams focused on framerate, and that's often a matter of changing some settings. If they were doing wholesale reworks of the rendering pipeline or art that would be a different thing altogether. QA is probably the most expensive part of it.

So I'm coming to this from the work required to update previous generation games for modern hardware.

That said, even if you put aside the issue of older games being enhanced for updated hardware - regardless of platform - in my experience the long term support of most titles is minimal outside of GaaS titles. For example, just looking at significant titles realised during the last generation of consoles, games like Far Cry 5, Fallout 4, Shadow of Mordor/Was, a ton of Call of Duty were last updated years ago. Games released on yearly cadence, like FIFA an F1 and even worse. They are almost always dropped within 18 months. EA dropped updates for Mass Effect Andromeda super quick and that was there next gen entry and reboot.

There are vastly more examples of titles getting a couple of years of support then no more, than there are of examples of publishers supporting games for three or more years - again, outside of GaaS or games monetised by frequent DLC. Because that is where the money to maintain it comes from. Exceptional examples like Witcher 3 are also exceptionally rare.

We probably agree but we're talking about different things.

 

[see colon]

So I'm coming to this from the work required to update previous generation games for modern hardware.

Yes, and in some respect so am I, but also, there are examples of games that received patches last generation to lock down framerates (which is fine) but would run at full refresh (60fps) on current generation systems if you run the pre-patch version. As per my original statement, it would be annoying to have to pay for a patch that largely just changes that framerate limit.

You cited examples of sports games and yearly releases only being supported within that year, but that isn't always the case. I don't play a ton of sports games, but I do play the UFC ones. UFC 3 came out in 2018, UFC 4 in 2020, but I like 3 better. It still gets fighter updates every month or so. So not full title updates, but the fighter's stats get tweaked a bit. I don't know if FIFA or Madden gets similar treatment but I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

Also to clarify, I'm not advocating that people not get paid for doing work, just that it's annoying to have to pay for software updates for titles for them to use the hardware you already paid for. They are still selling the game, so it isn't like there isn't a revenue stream for them. But in the case of Uncharted, if you only own one of the 2 titles it's a good deal.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Yes, and in some respect so am I, but also, there are examples of games that received patches last generation to lock down framerates (which is fine) but would run at full refresh (60fps) on current generation systems if you run the pre-patch version. As per my original statement, it would be annoying to have to pay for a patch that largely just changes that framerate limit.

I agree. And It's interesting that games with variable frame rates at launch later get capped that screw/limit modern hardware. I know there is a reason for it, but nonetheless this is about "here-and-now" decisions that were made some years ago that is now impacting/limiting performance of the same titles on modern hardware and therefore requires remedial work later down the line.

You cited examples of sports games and yearly releases only being supported within that year, but that isn't always the case. I don't play a ton of sports games, but I do play the UFC ones. UFC 3 came out in 2018, UFC 4 in 2020, but I like 3 better. It still gets fighter updates every month or so. So not full title updates, but the fighter's stats get tweaked a bit. I don't know if FIFA or Madden gets similar treatment but I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

Just to be clear, when referencing sports titles what I said was "Games released on yearly cadence" which UFC is not. The point here is that the teams working on the latest version of a game, necessarily have to drop earlier versions. It's got to be incredibly difficult to work on titles linked to an IP and franchise that gets updated yearly, without having to divert your resource to something you released 1, 2 or 3 years ago.

Also to clarify, I'm not advocating that people not get paid for doing work, just that it's annoying to have to pay for software updates for titles for them to use the hardware you already paid for. They are still selling the game, so it isn't like there isn't a revenue stream for them. But in the case of Uncharted, if you only own one of the 2 titles it's a good deal.

I get this, very much so. And I fully agree. But equally, when the only way to get updates is to pay a company for the effort, I'm generally willing to do that if I have a genuine intention to replay the game.

 

[iroboto]

Just want to toss in my hat for a patch beg here since we are on topic: Arkham Knight

Should get a go fund me going. Rocksteady need to fix this.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Just want to toss in my hat for a patch beg here since we are on topic: Arkham Knight

Do you want it for free, or are you willing to pay for it? "beg" generally equates to free.

 

[snc]

Just want to toss in my hat for a patch beg here since we are on topic: Arkham Knight

Should get a go fund me going. Rocksteady need to fix this.

45fps mode like last time ? Perfect for 90 and 135hz tvs

 

[iroboto]

Do you want it for free, or are you willing to pay for it? "beg" generally equates to free.

at this point in time I don't care lol. Let's do better than 900p and 30fps

 

[PSman1700]

Well, my view on it. If the platform's userbase are okay with paying for patches (not DLC), then why not? It seems that, viewing this latest discussion that playstation users are very much for it, and if thats the case i dont see any reason for Sony not to charge money for patches. Its a win-win situation, users like to pay and get their patches, studios have more income which they can lay on more patches or future new game releases.
Though with in mind they already increased pricing for their games, one wouldnt expect paid patches, but, if the users like the new idea, and Sony's seeing the positive stats on this, their free to continue with this new idea.

It seems to all depend on what eco-system we talk about, on the PC gaming side that would obviously not pan out as users aint going to pay for patches there, neither for resolution and framerate increases or pay to enable higher settings. Same with Xbox probably (MS platforms) and android.

I could see Apple starting to implement this idea though, pay for updates to your iphone or some kind of subscribtion model where you get IOS updates for X amount of dollars each year etc.

Miss the PS2 days where you simply inserted the disc and play, no patches/enabling of higher settings required, just the max the console could handle, no DRM on consoles etc etc

 

[Deleted member 11852]

at this point in time I don't care lol. Let's do better than 900p and 30fps

I agree. Some of the plummeting Series S game native resolutions are now within the reach of games released two generations ago. This is kind of nuts.

 

[iroboto]

I agree. Some of the plummeting Series S game native resolutions are now within the reach of games released two generations ago. This is kind of nuts.

I think what really hurt is that they didn't bother to release a 4Pro or X1X edition either. It really is a beautiful game locked to PS4 and XBO

 

[Clukos]

I think what really hurt is that they didn't bother to release a 4Pro or X1X edition either. It really is a beautiful game locked to PS4 and XBO

It really is a shame Rocksteady went completely AWOL since they released AK. It's a great Batman game but it could definitely use some patches for the newer platforms.

 

[PSman1700]

Nvidia RTX 3050 Review: Entry-Level Ray Tracing GPU Needs More Performance

 

[Nisaaru]

It really is a shame Rocksteady went completely AWOL since they released AK. It's a great Batman game but it could definitely use some patches for the newer platforms.

Does anybody here know what really happened there? Did people leave or is it about license issues with Warner? IMHO they had a great game design there and then just stopped...

 

[JPT]

Does anybody here know what really happened there? Did people leave or is it about license issues with Warner? IMHO they had a great game design there and then just stopped...

Rocksteady got Suicide Squad coming out soon, right?

 

[SmooTh]

Soon... Don't think it's coming out this year.
But would say they also have some internal problems at WB games/not only RS.

 

[iroboto]

Rocksteady got Suicide Squad coming out soon, right?

I thought this was Warner internal studios?

nvm: rocksteady. Confused them with Gotham Knights which is WB Montreal.

 

[see colon]

Does anybody here know what really happened there? Did people leave or is it about license issues with Warner? IMHO they had a great game design there and then just stopped...

Didn't they have to stop what they were doing to fix the PC port of AK. They stopped selling it on Steam for 6 months or more, didn't they?

 

[PSman1700]

DF Direct Weekly #46: Call of Duty's Future on PS5, Crysis 4 Reaction, Uncharted Collection

The bar for low-end GPUs like the 5700XT has been set higher, price-wise. 750Ti was very cheap back in the day.

 

[BRiT]

DF Article @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...utys-future-on-ps5-crysis-4-and-uncharted-ps5

Welcome to the latest edition of DF Direct Weekly, where finally - finally! - I get the opportunity to share my thoughts on the Microsoft/Activision deal. Readers of this column will know that the biggest industry news unerringly occurs the moment I dare to leave my station and go on holiday - and so it was with this one. Since the deal was revealed, there has been plenty of speculation on the fate of the Call of Duty franchise and whether PlayStation support will continue. On the face of it, Phil Spencer's tweet looks encouraging, but reporting from Bloomberg's Jason Schreier suggests that after the next two CODs and the next Warzone, Microsoft is free of its obligations. So what happens then?

And timestamps into the video --

• 00:00:00 Introductions
• 00:00:31 Activision/Microsoft + The Future of Call of Duty on PS5
• 00:08:12 Crysis 4 announcement
• 00:12:57 DF Bonus Supporter Q: Crysis 4 get its own "parallax sand" moment? If so, what are your predictions on what Crytek will bring to the table?
• 00:16:13 New Black Myth Wukong dev diary
• 00:20:27 Resident Evil 4 HD Project will see release Feb 2nd
• 00:24:18 Epic Games Incubates New Studio in Poland
• 00:28:00 DF Content Discussion: Uncharted PS5
• 00:39:41 DF Supporter Q1: Would Sony be able to shrink the PlayStation 4 into a handheld form and have it play the entire PS4 library?
• 00:43:23 DF Supporter Q2: If Nvidia released an RTX 40xx series graphics card tomorrow, which games or tech demos in your current library would you want to test first?
• 00:52:54 DF Supporter Q3: Rich, when can we expect more 4K on a budget?
• 01:02:23 DF Supporter Q4: I've seen rumours that Sony is looking to add backwards compatibility of some sort for PS1, PS2, and PS3 to the PS5. How would you like to see Sony handle this?
• 01:09:28 DF Supporter Q5: With our move to a post-resolution future, what are some games that you think do benefit from a native resolution?
• 01:12:06 DF Supporter Q6: Do you think another player could (or even should) enter the console market as it is today?

 

[Pete]

Looking closer at the Uncharted bundle, can you upgrade the base Uncharted 4 to the collection for $10, or just Lost Legacy for $10 and get the collection? Or do you need to own both? Because $10 for the visual upgrades and the other game is actually a great deal.

Plenty of places are reporting that as long as you own at least one of the two titles, then you'll qualify for the £10 upgrade. I own both anyway, so it's showing £10.

This is an interesting twist to the “is $10 a fair price for a framerate/resolution unlock?” question. Apparently if you own either Uncharted 4 or Lost Legacy on PS4–disc or digital (though not the Uncharted 4 PS+ “freebie”)—the $10 upgrade gets you both games in the new collection. It’s a great value if you just owned one of the games. It even gets you a ticket to see the new Uncharted movie if you buy the upgrade before Feb. 3rd, if you’re cool with Sony passing on Nathan Fillion to play Drake.

Upgrading a disc version requires the disc to play the PS5 version, so it’s limited to disc PS5s, but that gives some of the impatient a chance to buy a used copy of Uncharted 4 for $10 and then get it and Lost Legacy on PS5 for another $10 right now. Or just wait a year til the Collection hits $20 or less.