Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]
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Be nice to have this spun off into its own thread.
If you could get it down to $400 that would be reasonable.
To put it into context though.
Steam decks APU:
CPU: Zen 2 4c/8t, 2.4-3.5GHz (up to 448 GFlops FP32)
GPU: 8 RDNA 2 CUs, 1.0-1.6GHz (up to 1.6 TFlops FP32)
APU power: 4-15W
Your talking about getting a 4TF, 8c16t down to around 15W TDP, even on a smaller process that's a huge mountain to climb. Twice the cpu and well over twice the gpu.
You could try cut down the gpu and have it as another profile to target. But then your dual use goes out the window.
there used to be a series m thread but can't find it.
Steam Decks APU is that yes on 7nm but you also have handhelds using higher power apus. Also please note the chip I compared to is 15w-28 watts. I believe with a refresh of RDNA 2 or even going to RDNA 3 along with Zen 4 they will have even better efficiency.
It's tough to quantity the advantage of running xbox series code on a zen 3+ or zen 4 vs zen 2. So we don't really know if they need to hit the same clock rates for the same performance. It would be similar with RDNA 3. Would RDNA 3 need a 20cu set up at the same clock speeds to match series s? Could you use less CUs and perhaps even lower clocks and get similar performance. What about when implementing newer features like ray tracing. RDNA 2 is pretty bad in comparison to nvidia's technology. Did AMD do enough work on RDNA 3 to increase Ray tracing performance?
All I can say is that based on their new 6nm chips which are zen3+ & rdna 2 they are getting very close to Xbox series s. The cpu side is already there if not above the series s. The gpu side isn't far behind.
I also would wager that MS has a lot of experience building custom machines at this point. Not only do they have the xbox over the years and its many revisions each generation but they now have a large surface line of products. I would bet that they can maximize battery size and cooling vs what valve can do.
Which handheld has such a high TDP?
That sounds very high to me, would need very big battery and cooling I would have thought.
Sorry I came into conversation at end.
Nah bro you are always welcome to add input , its nice for us to do blue sky dreaming of products.
I believe the onexplayer has a turbo mode that puts it up to 25 watts
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/onexplayer-best-performing-handheld-game-console#/
It seems it allows up to 28watts
Really odd how big the difference is between the PS5 vs the Series consoles. I wonder if it's running in a backwards compatibility mode?
Another possibility is that it's using VRS. A lego game seems perfect for that technique.
Is the difference really that large considering the TF and memory bandwidth deltas? Possibly some of it might be if PC/Xbox was the lead platform? It is not an XDK/Gen9Aware title -- it uses the GDK. So it should be native, at least on the Xbox Series consoles.
snc
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Is 1.96x pixels advantage for minial res big taking into account 20% tf advantage and 25% bandwidth advantage large ? Of course it is, I thought you are resonible guy.
Oh wow, I was going from the 1800p vs 1440p figures listed elsewhere. So the 20-25% delta there seemed semi-reasonable if you figured the engine being conservative to maintain common resolutions. I didn't know there were scenes where Xbox was pushing nearly 2x the pixels.
As you said, 2x the delta is way too much and seems entirely unreasonable.
We already saw the Touryst pushing ~90% more pixels on PS5. But here I'd say the PS4 game could have trouble running on PS5 at full clocks properly. We know some PS4 games running on PS5 have actually a profile, some of them running with lower GPU clocks in order to improve compatibility.
So you're claiming this is only a PS4 game running on the PS5 in BC Mode? That would be extra odd because it is a native Series title, so it would be reasonable to expect them to have native PS5 title too.
Directly from the Playstation Store product page @ https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP1018-PPSA01864_00-LEGOSWTSS0000000
Not specifically about this game, but in the future it may become a standard for games that are initially developed for xsx (using all its advantages), and then ported to ps5.
Between exclusive games, the difference is likely to be even more dramatic. Hardware support for VRS, MS, SFS (Texture Space Shading) and INT4/INT8 is actually much more important than people think right now.
It’s too early to say how important they are in real world usage. We have no data to draw even an educated guess.
Ok if this is a native PS5 game something is definitely amiss. Many big recent games are actually running better or similar on PS5 (when it was not the case in many older games).
On the contrary. This game is an anomaly like they Touryst was an anomaly (even if we know it was caused by hardware differences). It's not like this game seems optimized on any hardware either. It's probably way unoptimized on PS5 or a tools problem. Like as I said previously what is gonna define big future games is UE5 engine and we already know PS5 has the advantage.
BTW why when this happen on PS5 (it's actually the first time to such extent) nobody even think about the tools or bug but when it often happens on XSX (last example being MLB the show 22 running about 20% better on PS5) everybody talk about tools / bug problem ?
Who is 'we' in that context? There are no UE5 games released yet, and basing conclusions on a tech-demo isn't going to say much what actual UE5 based games are going to do performance wise.
+ the GPU advantage teamed to a higher BW without the parts having to downclock either. Slowly we see the XSX pulling ahead as some had speculated going forward/games starting to utilize next gen hardware instead of last.
Beautiful game. Lol. I usually have no interest in these titles; but my kids are too afraid to watch Star Wars and this might be a way to get them to engage with it.
Decent amount of content as well.
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We speculated on Touryst. It was a launch title port for Series consoles that was released on PS5 significantly later. I don’t actually think we were given the official reason for its resolution difference.
is the game an anomaly? Sure. For reasons we don’t know, but likely is an issue at the software level. Outside of that we don’t know.
Do I think it’s a tools issue? No. Kit
Tools for both consoles should be fairly mature now. Tool//api issues typically show up as frame rate issues and not resolution differentials on DRS.
I'm not starting from any particular game, but from the capabilities of the hardware.
Once again, I repeat.
Crossgen games are extremely not indicative, they, like their engines, were created for a small number of computing cores, for weak CPUs and for a completely different pipeline (which has its own significant bottlenecks for modern hardware).
PS5, the structure of the architecture of which is close to the PS4 pro and also has a very similar toolkit to the previous generation and variable frequencies that allow it to overclock the GPU without consequences in the currently released games, of course it feels good now.
But when the games are transferred to new technologies and begin to fully use the CPU, GPU, BW of current-gen consoles, the situation may change significantly.
The ps5 version of the game is a PS5-optimized build released almost a year after launching on XSX (which is essentially a simple port with XOX).
Johnny Awesome
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The situation for the PS development advantage peaked the day before this generation started. It was a given when Sony had a 2.5:1 install base advantage and the better base hardware (PS4 vs. X1) that PS would almost always be the lead platform for 3rd party games. The further we get from that day, that PS dev advantage is slowly eroding. Now they are only outselling Xbox world-wide by about 35% according to latest numbers and they arguably have the weaker console for next-gen compute heavy engines that use all the RDNA2 features. It's certainly moving towards a more level playing field. It's not a given that PS will be the lead platform going forward.
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