Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

[pjbliverpool]

Seems that cloud gaming might really take over local console gaming sometime.... DF was quite impressed versus the XSX with it.

I've just briefly tried out GeForce Now and I have to say its pretty f*cking awesome. Without paying a penny it let me link directly to my Steam, Epic and Ubi library's and then play many of my own games, from my own save points, on my Android phone on my XBSX pad which connected straight up over BT with no hassle at all.

Latency was poor but not unplayable in the games I tried, and that is on the free tier over WiFi with a BT controller. I imagine it would be much better via the PC LAN on a paid tier. I couldn't speak for the graphics on the free tier because the screen on my phone is too small (GalaxyS 10) to really see a difference. Looked very similar to playing on my 1070 though. I'd be curious what hardware I'm getting there.

I must admit, and I feel dirty for even thinking it, but at this time of impossible to get GPUs and me currently missing out on features like RTX and DLSS, I'd seriously consider paying 6 months of the 3080 tier until the 40x0 generation launches. If nothing else it would make for some pretty interesting comparisons to playing my own games locally.on the 1070.

 

[Jay]

I had to wait a handful of times. No more than 5 minutes though.

Normal wait time for me prior to December was approx 15 seconds.
So 5 min is a magnitude longer for me.

 

[cheapchips]

Normal wait time for me was approx 15 seconds.
So 5 min is a magnitude longer for me.

That was more typical for me, even over the Christmas holidays. It was only a few times where I hit the longer queues.

 

[Jay]

That was more typical for me, even over the Christmas holidays. It was only a few times where I hit the longer queues.

I gave up over December, not tried it since.
Usually use it to do rewards.

 

[PSman1700]

Remotely owning a 3080 GPU now possible

 

[PSman1700]

 

[Jay]

Would be nice to know what the latency for halo infinite is like on XSX & Xcloud to see how it compares.
As I would hope that it makes good use of all their low latency API etc. Could give good indication of what is possible.

@Dictator how hard would it be for him to do it and just give us the figures without a video?

 

[PSman1700]

Would be nice to know what the latency for halo infinite is like on XSX & Xcloud to see how it compares.
As I would hope that it makes good use of all their low latency API etc. Could give good indication of what is possible.

@Dictator how hard would it be for him to do it and just give us the figures without a video?

While i think these cloud services are welcomed and have many good use case, its not something i'd myself see doing over actually owning the hardware myself. This is basically renting vs owning. Its going to be awhile before streaming is going to take the place of local consoles etc.

I think something like Gamepass is much better. Best of both worlds...

Edit: To DF, is PC98_Audi already a official DF member? If not, he certainly should be.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I wonder how or if GFN works with G-sync? And I assume DSR/DLDSR is out of the question. I assume NIS is out of the question too. Those latency numbers on the local GPU system are damn impressive but for a more casual gamer like me there's a point of "good enough" which I imagine the top GFN tier can comfortably satisfy.

That said, 1440p is definitely too limiting for me on a 3840x1600 monitor and the game selection seems rather limited at the moment too, at least given how each game is locked into specific platforms. i.e. BFV may be there, but only if you own it through Steam or Origin for example. I have the Epic version so no luck for me. And no GoG at all so Cyberpunk is out.

On balance despite the prospect of being able to game on something akin to a 3080 for the next 6 months until the next gen arrives for a measly £90, I don't think this is really for me right now.

 

[trinibwoy]

Remotely owning a 3080 GPU now possible

I used the free GFN tier while traveling internationally over the holidays. Latency was about 100ms but I stuck to turn based games so it was fine. Really nice option for people who already own the games.

 

[neckthrough]

I think something like Gamepass is much better. Best of both worlds...

How so? You're renting the games now. Which may work great for some, but it's not strictly better/worse than GeForce Now. Just a different set of tradeoffs.

In the grand scheme of things, the hardware-rental model brings in a ton of efficiency benefits thanks to consolidation. What fraction of the 24 hours in a day are those RTX and RX cards actually doing useful work? With silicon becoming a pricier commodity this path may become inevitable. Yeah sure the experience isn't ideal yet etc. etc... but it'll get to the point where it's good enough.

The only benefit that the software-rental model provides is a more steady and dependable revenue stream for software vendors. Also I suppose the rotating-carousel game menu is a good fit for some peoples' gaming patterns.

Just observing BTW. Not sure I like any of it. But I'm a dinosaur.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The only benefit that the software-rental model provides is a more steady and dependable revenue stream for software vendors.

There's also the benefit of not being at the mercy of internet latency conditions. You don't need to have an amazing internet connection in order to have consistently low input -> feedback latency if the game is installed on your local machine. You also don't have to worry about having a good enough internet connection that the visuals aren't impacted negatively.

Of course the flip side as you pointed out is that your visuals will depend entirely on your machine which can be both a positive (if you can afford as good or better hardware) and a negative (if you can't) ... of course again subject to how good your internet connection is. If your internet connection isn't the best then you're likely almost always better off with a physical installation on your machine.

I guess since GeForce now requires you to own the game anyway, that's not as much of a drawback compared to other streaming services. However, that also means that if you play a lot of games that a subscription service will end up massively cheaper if you enjoy a lot of the games offered on the subscription service. For myself, I'm paying about 120 USD a year for Game Pass, but I'm playing about 600-800 USD worth of games in a year for that subscription cost.

On top of that, I have no buyer's remorse if I don't finish a game. My Steam library is chock full of games that I haven't finished. Hell, it's chock full of games I haven't even started. On Game Pass, there's also a lot of games I've started but haven't finished. But unlike Steam, I didn't pay for them. Thus saving me hundreds of USD a year.

Money that I plan to put towards hardware upgrades ... once GPU prices come back to something resembling earth.

If I were instead using GeForce Now, I'd be spending a LOT more money. And not discovering as many new cool games that I never would have thought to buy.

BTW - this isn't saying there's no value for GeForce Now or that it's worse value depending on the person. For the right person, there's great value there for GeForce Now (just not for me). Just pointing out that a subscription service has quite a few benefits.

Regards,
SB

 

[trinibwoy]

However, that also means that if you play a lot of games that a subscription service will end up massively cheaper if you enjoy a lot of the games offered on the subscription service. For myself, I'm paying about 120 USD a year for Game Pass, but I'm playing about 600-800 USD worth of games in a year for that subscription cost.

That’s impressive. None of the current subscription services really make sense for me because I don’t play enough games to justify the cost. The games I do play are typically a few years old and I usually finish them. For folks though who like to sample games or play a lot of games there can be a lot of value in a subscription service.

On the streaming front Microsoft is really well positioned to offer a compelling cloud gaming service. They have the games, hardware and data centers to make it work. I wish they would offer a PC cloud option but that’s not happening anytime soon.

 

[PSman1700]

Thus saving me hundreds of USD a year.

Money that I plan to put towards hardware upgrades ... once GPU prices come back to something resembling earth.

Hm didnt really think off it like that, thats actually very much worth it.

 

[see colon]

How so? You're renting the games now. Which may work great for some, but it's not strictly better/worse than GeForce Now. Just a different set of tradeoffs.

In the grand scheme of things, the hardware-rental model brings in a ton of efficiency benefits thanks to consolidation. What fraction of the 24 hours in a day are those RTX and RX cards actually doing useful work? With silicon becoming a pricier commodity this path may become inevitable. Yeah sure the experience isn't ideal yet etc. etc... but it'll get to the point where it's good enough.

The only benefit that the software-rental model provides is a more steady and dependable revenue stream for software vendors. Also I suppose the rotating-carousel game menu is a good fit for some peoples' gaming patterns.

Just observing BTW. Not sure I like any of it. But I'm a dinosaur.

I've tried both GFN and XCloud and I think both are fine for what they are, but I will say I like XCloud better because it's easier. Beyond the issues where I sometimes have to log in again or fumble with 2 factor stuff on GFN, I also own thousands of games on Steam, hundreds on GOG and Epic, and tens on Ubisoft and Origin. Not all of them are available. In fact, it's a pretty small percentage. Of the 1700ish games I own on Steam only 223 are available on GFN. I like that GFN is an option, and the free tier is great for what it is, but if it was my main way to play games, buying them and hoping they work with GFN would be insane. If you have Gamepass, more than 100 titles are available to stream including new releases.

I wouldn't want any streaming service as my primary gaming outlet right now, though. None of them seam quite ready for prime time.

 

[neckthrough]

On top of that, I have no buyer's remorse if I don't finish a game. My Steam library is chock full of games that I haven't finished. Hell, it's chock full of games I haven't even started.

I hear you. I have the same problem. But I don't know if the rotating carousel would remove my remorse. For me it would just change it to a different negative emotion. I sometimes end up watching shows on Netflix/Prime out of FOMO just before they go out of rotation. I sometimes do miss out and lose access to a series I was in the middle of because I didn't realize it was going to go out. I just don't like that. With stuff I own (whether it's games or other content) at least I have the mental peace of mind that I can get around to playing it "some" day, and that day is one of my choice not the software-buffet vendor's. Although I can't delay indefinitely of course... OS backwards compatibility isn't perfect and life itself has an expiration date, after all .

Different strokes and all that.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

On the streaming front Microsoft is really well positioned to offer a compelling cloud gaming service. They have the games, hardware and data centers to make it work. I wish they would offer a PC cloud option but that’s not happening anytime soon.

This should be an easier ask that building out infrastructure to support Xbox-specific server hardware because Azure already has provision for both 80x86 and conventional GPUs for their customers. I don't know how different their server hardware is to a gaming PC so there may be some implementation issue where it's not viable but I couldn't imagine what it would be.

Maybe this is on their roadmap.

 

[snc]

 

[iroboto]

hoo this comes out today.

 

[trinibwoy]

This should be an easier ask that building out infrastructure to support Xbox-specific server hardware because Azure already has provision for both 80x86 and conventional GPUs for their customers. I don't know how different their server hardware is to a gaming PC so there may be some implementation issue where it's not viable but I couldn't imagine what it would be.

Maybe this is on their roadmap.

It’s technically possible of course and they have the infrastructure. I would just be surprised if they diluted the Xbox brand with a PC alternative.