Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

[cwjs]

Hmmm.
No.

We at DF make sure to cover only day one Patch performance for countless games - recent examples: Dying Light 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Ratchet and Clank. Games that all changed rapidly during the review period on a technical level to the point where reporting on pre-day 1 Patch tevcnicals makes no sense.
Did you complaim about us covering day-1 Patches in these games?

Absolutely not taking the "weasel words" weirdo's side but wasn't dying light covered pre day 1 patch? I remember the video specifically calling it out, and asking about the weird tree lighting situation here.

(I personally think there's a lot of value to having some pre-patch coverage and then updating it as necessary when the patch comes out (especially for those of us deciding which console to buy it on!) but obviously it'd be more work, make your partners angry, etc, so the choice is very reasonable.)

 

[Riddlewire]

This Elden Ring game isn't the type I care about, so I've largely missed all the information about it. So forgive me if this is already well-known information.
Is this game going to have a physical release? If so, is it going to be a physical release or a "physical release" like Halo Infinite (or even Cyberpunk, which won't play on Series X without patching first).
It seems to me that the issue of pre-day one patch analysis is mostly irrelevant if the game comes in a playable state on a disc. There are many youtubers who do pixel and frame counting now. And lots of TVs and monitors provide frame-rate displays, so no real work required (although it's a lot less precise).

 

[Shortbread]

That's not context, that's ass-covering weasel words and the crux of the issue. Don't whitewash this.

This is such an odd take.

Why would any reputable gaming [analyst] sites not use the latest patched version when discussing the performance/IQ on a soon to be released game?

 

[Cyan]

Some have a problem with Alex's content.

for some people yes, it can be controversial. That "elitism", or "oh gosh, this is the standard for what graphics should be judged nowadays" or might sound bad to a few

DF Weekly Article @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-horizon-forbidden-west-and-dying-light-2-vrr

• 00:00:00 Introductions
• 00:00:55 Cyberpunk Patch 1.5 is out
• 00:17:07 Dying Light Xbox VRR Mode
• 00:20:07 DF Bonus Supporter Q: Hey guys, did you have any chance to look at the Dying Light 2 VRR mode for Xbox?
• 00:22:28 Nintendo announces the death of 3DS and Wii U storefronts
• 00:27:52 Chrono Cross Remaster filters can be disabled
• 00:30:14 Final Vendetta - Bitmap Bureau's new game
• 00:31:52 Elden Ring recommended specs are bizarre
• 00:37:11 DF Content Discussion: Horizon Forbidden West
• 00:41:31 DF Bonus Supporter Q: SkillUp's review for Horizon Forbidden West showed significantly more noticeable pop-in than Digital Foundry's. Any idea why that might be?
• 00:45:16 DF Bonus Supporter Q: Do you think there is enough headroom for a 40fps mode?
• 00:46:20 DF Bonus Supporter Q: Do you think AMD FSR would be the better choice for the performance mode of Horizon Forbidden West?
• 00:49:12 DF Bonus Supporter Q: What do you think about the fact that all Decima games we've seen so far only lightly utilise TAA?
• 00:50:30 DF Bonus Supporter Q: What graphical elements of Horizon Forbidden West could benefit from an eventual PC port?
• 00:56:49 DF Supporter Q1/2: Would it be possible to make a kind of generation comparison video?
• 01:01:00 DF Supporter Q3: Is there a setting on LG C1 that is suitable for 30fps games?
• 01:03:21 DF Supporter Q4: What are some great HDR implementations in games to really convince somebody that HDR is as amazing as some people say it is?
• 01:06:13 DF Supporter Q5: Who would you recommend to buy AMD GPUs assuming the cards are available at MSRP? Do you think AMD can catch up with Nvidia in RT/ML and does the coming XeSS help AMD?
• 01:12:42 DF Supporter Q6: Do you think we're going to start seeing larger and larger gaps between 30fps quality modes and 60fps performance modes? And do you expect some games to drop their performance modes all together?
• 01:15:08 DF Supporter Q7: What do you think is responsible for the lack of four- and even two-player split-screen multiplayer on modern consoles?
• 01:19:27 DF Supporter Q8: How do you decide which platform to buy a game on?

talking of patches, I think the latest Halo Infinite patch brought a huge performance boost. In fact, my mediocre GTX 1060 3GB now can "run" the game at more than Low settings. I could set some options to Medium and above before, but not texture budget and some other setting I don't remember. Now I can just set the game at Medium, High or Ultra in the global quality setting selection dropdown menu.

Oddly enough, while the performance is poor -40fps-, the game can run on something else than low on my GTX 1060, so I guess PC performance metrics have gone through the roof compared to the initial release. Always glad to listen to John's answers on several matters. Wish they gave some more love to FSR/NIS etc though, it's been a life saver for my crappy GPU.

 

[PSman1700]

Why is John always standing? The part where they discuss 2077's visuals, where they say that many have not (yet) experienced what/how 2077 really can look like.
Doesnt look so good for the XSS.... (DF discussion).

 

[function]

I demand that graphics cards are reviewed with pre-launch drivers ....

 

[PSman1700]

I demand that graphics cards are reviewed with pre-launch drivers ....

Its happening in the phone space.

 

[Remij]

I'm really enjoying Alex's look into the Art and Tech of TW: Warhammer 3. It's quite impressive how much detail they put into all the various characters/units in the game.

When I saw the warriors on horses, it instantly reminded me of Kessen for PS2. I was looking at it basically thinking... you know there's probably more polygons and texture data in a single unit in Warhammer 3, than there was in the entirety of Kessen's biggest battles with all the units.

It's quite something to look back at that stuff. Which would actually make for an awesome video I think. I'd love to see a "through the years" type comparison between many of these strategy games.. comparing poly counts and model qualities, and other flourishes. I love that kind of stuff.

 

[PSman1700]

Intresting bit where John explains his feelings for the different platforms. I do fully understand now as to why. He wants everything physical and doesnt want to spend more then say 20/30 dollars for a digital copy of a game. He likes the pc versions but he waits untill those are on sale (which often happens), and plays the definitive versions there then.

 

[Cyan]

Intresting bit where John explains his feelings for the different platforms. I do fully understand now as to why. He wants everything physical and doesnt want to spend more then say 20/30 dollars for a digital copy of a game. He likes the pc versions but he waits untill those are on sale (which often happens), and plays the definitive versions there then.

he is a bit of a romantic. Has John seen the latest Sony's report to investors? Physical sales are on an absolute decline, like 4% to 6% sales were physical sales or so? -iirc-

He can buy games at Instant-gaming for a discount..., or Humble Bundle, PC Gamepass (20% discount is typical there if you are subscribed) etc etc. While I had a stint as a console/PC player from 2005 to 2015, I primarily played on PC ever since I enjoyed my first games but living in a rural mountainous area made it difficult to get physical copies --really liked a girl who was working at a Game retail shop in the nearest city, and that fact made it less painful though.

I remember buying physical games in the UK that were sent via regular mail, but even on consoles, I primarily purchased digital copies of the games. My last physical game is Doom 2016 and the disc is in some place I cant recall. Digital copies are easier to track too, imho, and put up with the test of time just better.

 

[see colon]

I remember buying physical games in the UK that were sent via regular mail, but even on consoles, I primarily purchased digital copies of the games. My last physical game is Doom 2016 and the disc is in some place I cant recall. Digital copies are easier to track too, imho, and put up with the test of time just better.

I'm not sure I've bought a physical Xbox game since I subscribed to Gamepass a couple years ago. On Playstation 4... I think I bought a used copy of God Of War because it had the steel book 6 months ago. That's the main thing I miss about physical media. The cool box art and stuff you got with it. I would love to be a physical media guy. It's just inconvenient in every way for me, from point of purchase, to the simple act of changing games. Not to mention wear and tear on physical media. And this might sound strangely morbid, but I can't stop thinking about what my kids are going to have to do with all my stuff when I'm gone.

I get what he's saying about Nintendo. But with Microsoft, there are apps I bought on a Windows Phone that I used to use as an MP3 player that work on my Xbox and PC. They have a track record of respecting my purchases for an extended period of time. It's the same with Steam or GOG at this point.

 

[Karamazov]

Imagine testing CP77 without day 1 patch

I'm really enjoying Alex's look into the Art and Tech of TW: Warhammer 3. It's quite impressive how much detail they put into all the various characters/units in the game.

When I saw the warriors on horses, it instantly reminded me of Kessen for PS2. I was looking at it basically thinking... you know there's probably more polygons and texture data in a single unit in Warhammer 3, than there was in the entirety of Kessen's biggest battles with all the units.

It's quite something to look back at that stuff. Which would actually make for an awesome video I think. I'd love to see a "through the years" type comparison between many of these strategy games.. comparing poly counts and model qualities, and other flourishes. I love that kind of stuff.

I remember being amazed by kessen 2's tornado sumon back in the day, but never got to actually play it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Absolutely not taking the "weasel words" weirdo's side but wasn't dying light covered pre day 1 patch? I remember the video specifically calling it out, and asking about the weird tree lighting situation here.

They did, I posted noting I felt this was weird too and people responded saying I couldn't blame DF for it! Cockups happen, but DF have - very recently - done technical analysis on games without their launch day patches.

I personally think there's a lot of value to having some pre-patch coverage and then updating it as necessary when the patch comes out

I agree, and it can be illuminating to see how rapidly bugs and performance improve in just a few weeks and articles like this are good for this, but they really should be presented clearly as such.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why would any reputable gaming [analyst] sites not use the latest patched version when discussing the performance/IQ on a soon to be released game?

There is a legitimate reason and that's to consider the game some people will be buying/experiencing if they get the disc and play without patching. These people making their purchase decision based on a DF analysis of the patched game won't know what they are getting into and would thus prefer to hear about their unpatched, disc-copy experience. However, that's a niche audience and DF are free to choose whatever policy they want to balance workload against value to their readership. Realistically these days, you need to have you console on the internet along with your mobile phone. It's not an optional nicety but a necessity and the idea of a 'disc' based game is, sadly, becoming unrealistic. If you are someone wanting to know what the pre-patched disc experience is because that's what you'll be experiencing, you need to get with the times and hook up to the internet and patch your games!

 

[Caayn]

Is it even possible today to play off disc games? I was under impression that all new games require additional download from interwebz.

Depends on the game and the console.

Ignoring the obvious internet requirement for OG/360 games on modern Xbox hardware. The Xbox Series X can only play Xbox Series X specific games from disc without requiring an internet connection during the first boot. If you insert an Xbox One, or smart delivery, disc in an Xbox Series X the console will require an internet connection when you boot the game for the first time after installation. During the "Getting your game ready" the console is essentially downloading a small config file from XBL required to run the game on Xbox Series hardware, even if there's no specific XSX|S build/patch for the game available. Developers can choose to include an offline ready build for the XSX on the same disc but that rarely happens due to space constraints( I can't think of any smart-delivery game that has done that).

Nintendo Switch, PS4 and PS5 don't have such a built-in system. Other than that it depends on the game, most of them have at least a working build on the disc/cartridge.

 

[Dural]

I'm not sure I've bought a physical Xbox game since I subscribed to Gamepass a couple years ago. On Playstation 4... I think I bought a used copy of God Of War because it had the steel book 6 months ago. That's the main thing I miss about physical media. The cool box art and stuff you got with it. I would love to be a physical media guy. It's just inconvenient in every way for me, from point of purchase, to the simple act of changing games. Not to mention wear and tear on physical media. And this might sound strangely morbid, but I can't stop thinking about what my kids are going to have to do with all my stuff when I'm gone.

I get what he's saying about Nintendo. But with Microsoft, there are apps I bought on a Windows Phone that I used to use as an MP3 player that work on my Xbox and PC. They have a track record of respecting my purchases for an extended period of time. It's the same with Steam or GOG at this point.

Same here, the only physical release I've bought is Cyberpunk because it was only $10 and I figured I'd just leave the disc in the drive since every other game I play I have digitally. I was a big physical release person 15 or so years ago, I had shelves to display all the games and DVDs. Since getting married and having kids though, physical releases just don't work for me. Kids destroy discs, once they know what's in the case they won't stop getting into them and trying to put multiple discs in the slot. Even Cyberpunk I find thrown on the ground weekly because my 1yo won't stop pushing the button to take it out of the console. So while I like physical releases and displaying them, it just doesn't work with kids.

 

[Cyan]

And this might sound strangely morbid, but I can't stop thinking about what my kids are going to have to do with all my stuff when I'm gone.

a smart concern. Human capital is important. I live in a small village -30 to 40 inhabitants- and many memories, things of the past, water mills, art on huge blocks of rock -hillocks-, etc etc, from our ancestors, stone walls to separate the fields from every owner -small fields, my region is about smallholders-, lots of artistic representations on stone and stuff like that, even houses that are now abandoned, are thing that parents and creators at the time never thought could be abandoned by their children, or grandchildren, etc. But that's ot.

Another thing with physical discs nowadays is that when you get home with your disc in hand you find out there is no actual game on it, or that you have to download a 50GB to 100GB file, the actual game....

 

[BRiT]

Ignoring the obvious internet requirement for OG/360 games on modern Xbox hardware. The Xbox Series X can only play Xbox Series X specific games from disc without requiring an internet connection during the first boot. If you insert an Xbox One, or smart delivery, disc in an Xbox Series X the console will require an internet connection when you boot the game for the first time after installation. During the "Getting your game ready" the console is essentially downloading a small config file from XBL required to run the game on Xbox Series hardware, even if there's no specific XSX|S build/patch for the game available. Developers can choose to include an offline ready build for the XSX on the same disc but that rarely happens due to space constraints( I can't think of any smart-delivery game that has done that).

Yes, that depends on the title because of what the developers opt to include on the disc. As already pointed out a few times and posted in these forums, the game DMC5 can fully play offline and never requires an internet connection (I think that's the one title brought up for this). I don't know why some other titles that have the obvious room for it don't do that.

 

[SmooTh]

 

[cwjs]

finally!