Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2022]

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I don’t think there’s all that much to fill. The transparency (on meshes and particles) is all dithered, right? It’s not going wildly against the grain of what the hardware is good at by trying to render 4k. The contact shadows are possibly compute, the rats are definitely compute, the volumetrics are probably mostly compute, the Pom could be compute heavy… I’m sure there’s plenty on the cpu too, wherever appropriate to take the load off the gpu. it’s a modern video game, not a port designed for 10 year old hardware — you can do a lot to maximize your gpu power.

Btw, I beat the game yesterday, it’s a huge accomplishment. Some of the set pieces (especially the one right at the end of the game) are hard to imagine delivering on a crossgen game.


geometry may not have a terrible amount of overdraw.
Yes — but it’s important to keep in mind that doesn’t constrain the subject matter. There are tooooooons or layered transparent surfaces in this game, some of the densest foliage in any shipped game, there’s lots of gameplay relevant smoke, and there’s no struggle from the xsx to run it at 40. The smoke is volumetrics, the grass is (I think) doing some kind of dithered deferred thing + taa , etc. There are a lot of ways to approach rendering these days!


Also, this isn’t really console specific. Overdraw is a failure case for your art and engine — big aaa ps5 games don’t just throw tons of alpha at the screen either. The xsx may suffer more when content isn’t modern but nobody wants to spend their gpu time rendering a pixel 50 times.
 
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I don’t think there’s all that much to fill. The transparency (on meshes and particles) is all dithered, right? It’s not going wildly against the grain of what the hardware is good at by trying to render 4k. The contact shadows are possibly compute, the rats are definitely compute, the volumetrics are probably mostly compute, the Pom could be compute heavy… I’m sure there’s plenty on the cpu too, wherever appropriate to take the load off the gpu. it’s a modern video game, not a port designed for 10 year old hardware — you can do a lot to maximize your gpu power.

Btw, I beat the game yesterday, it’s a huge accomplishment. Some of the set pieces (especially the one right at the end of the game) are hard to imagine delivering on a crossgen game.



Yes — but it’s important to keep in mind that doesn’t constrain the subject matter. There are tooooooons or layered transparent surfaces in this game, some of the densest foliage in any shipped game, there’s lots of gameplay relevant smoke, and there’s no struggle from the xsx to run it at 40. The smoke is volumetrics, the grass is (I think) doing some kind of dithered deferred thing + taa , etc. There are a lot of ways to approach rendering these days!


Also, this isn’t really console specific. Overdraw is a failure case for your art and engine — big aaa ps5 games don’t just throw tons of alpha at the screen either. The xsx may suffer more when content isn’t modern but nobody wants to spend their gpu time rendering a pixel 50 times.
discard then =P
they may have a better pipeline to remove the need to discard later in the pipeline.
 
Some of the set pieces (especially the one right at the end of the game) are hard to imagine delivering on a crossgen game.
I wish there were still channels benchmarking PC games with AMD FX CPUs like there were a few years ago. I'm really interested how this game and Gotham Knights run of those ancient CPUs
 
I'm looking forward to the Digital Foundry tech analysis of Suckboy for PC.... because wow... that UE4 comp stuttering is on full display.

Make an example out of it Alex! It's unbelievable that they could play that game and think it's anywhere close to acceptable.
 
I'm looking forward to the Digital Foundry tech analysis of Suckboy for PC.... because wow... that UE4 comp stuttering is on full display.

Make an example out of it Alex! It's unbelievable that they could play that game and think it's anywhere close to acceptable.

One one hand, i want a video if there are issues. But on the other hand, i can't think of a less interesting game to spend so many hours covering. It has 400 concurent players on steam after 2 hours. Nobody cares or bought this game on PC which i would think would be pretty obvious for sony, but aparently not
 
I'm looking forward to the Digital Foundry tech analysis of Suckboy for PC.... because wow... that UE4 comp stuttering is on full display.

I honestly though there would be no way they would ship it without a precompile stage, if even UC4 in its present state had it. Unbelievable.

Looking at some youtube videos it appears this isn't an Uncharted 4 situation, GPU/CPU usage is fine and 60fps seems easily obtainable on a 1060. But...those stutters. Completely ruins it. Inane.

Make an example out of it Alex! It's unbelievable that they could play that game and think it's anywhere close to acceptable.

👍

One one hand, i want a video if there are issues. But on the other hand, i can't think of a less interesting game to spend so many hours covering. It has 400 concurent players on steam after 2 hours. Nobody cares or bought this game on PC which i would think would be pretty obvious for sony, but aparently not

Sony's reluctance to price these games without any appreciable discount relative to original launch date (it was free on PS+ months ago!) or genre will continue to bite them in the ass. I like that this is on PC, and it's a relatively unique type of game on the PC so I think some level of coverage is warranted based on that alone.

But PC gamers just aren't going to pay $60 for a platformer, this should be obvious. There is no point to price it like this when it will have a fraction of the sales it would as a ~$35 title.
 
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Written Article for those who read...


Gotham Knights PC: can its severe problems explain poor console performance?​

Even a Core i9/RTX 4090 rig can drop beneath 60fps.

Gotham Knight's performance woes on consoles continue to cause controversy, with many worried that it's the first title to signal a resurgence in 30fps gaming for the latest console hardware. The PC version - with its adjustable settings, hardware monitoring and the ability to switch out hardware - allows us to pick apart the issues, separate them, and get a better idea of what what makes this game tick. In doing so, we should be able to answer why frame-rates are capped at 30fps on consoles. The bottom line is that this game has severe CPU utilisation problems that almost certainly affect the PS5 and Xbox Series builds too, while the PC version has additional issues exclusive to that platform.

We tested the title on two different PCs - the first is our usual mid-spec gaming rig, based on the ever-popular Ryzen 5 3600 paired with an Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 Super and 3200MT/s low latency DDR4, the other featuring best-in-class components - a Core i9 12900K paired with fast 6000MT/s DDR5 and an RTX 4090. The Ryzen is especially interesting as there are similarities in CPU architecture with the CPU clusters found within PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series consoles. In all reasonable scenarios, we seem to be CPU-limited on both systems when frame-rate is unlocked, severely limiting scalability and bringing the ceiling crashing down on overall performance.

Gotham Knights' profound CPU limitation is easy to illustrate as with the Ryzen in place, the difference between the lowest setting and the highest is a mere 10 percent of performance. Even swapping out the RTX 2060 Super for an RTX 3080 barely shifts the needle in terms of frame-rate - proof positive that the GPU is not a problem. Much of the 10 percent variance seems to be down to just two settings: view distance and environmental detail.

...
 
So it's the RT that slaughters performance?

Looks to be so. There are quite numerous RT settings, reflections have numerous settings levels alone, but there's also raytraced shadows.

1666893900521.png

What's cool is in the settings menu, there's a real-time load indicator in the upper right that shows you the effect each setting has instantaneously on your framerate. How they manage that polish but don't include a shader precompile stage is beyond me.

1666894107203.png
 
Sony's reluctance to price these games without any appreciable discount relative to original launch date (it was free on PS+ months ago!) or genre will continue to bite them in the ass. I like that this is on PC, and it's a relatively unique type of game on the PC so I think some level of coverage is warranted based on that alone.
While I don't like it from a consumer perspective, it does sort of make sense to have these games retail as if they are full priced AAA games, because that's what they are. I get that they are old, and that they are ports, but they exist to expand the Playstation brands footprint in gaming and make money. Being full priced releases both gives them the opportunity to get high mark up day one sales and run discounts later, but also shine a positive light on the older console releases which are currently sold for less. I don't have data to back this up, but I'm willing to bet a game like Spider-Man got a sales bump on PS4/5 after it's PC release because of the coverage in the gaming press and social media, plus all the comparisons that show how well those versions hold up, combined with the current price tag.
 
While I don't like it from a consumer perspective, it does sort of make sense to have these games retail as if they are full priced AAA games, because that's what they are. I get that they are old, and that they are ports, but they exist to expand the Playstation brands footprint in gaming and make money. Being full priced releases both gives them the opportunity to get high mark up day one sales and run discounts later, but also shine a positive light on the older console releases which are currently sold for less. I don't have data to back this up, but I'm willing to bet a game like Spider-Man got a sales bump on PS4/5 after it's PC release because of the coverage in the gaming press and social media, plus all the comparisons that show how well those versions hold up, combined with the current price tag.

This is two different market and if people want to play Sony game they can wait a price discount on PC too. Some people will but the game on PC release and other later when they will think the price is fair.
 
Sony's reluctance to price these games without any appreciable discount relative to original launch date (it was free on PS+ months ago!) or genre will continue to bite them in the ass. I like that this is on PC, and it's a relatively unique type of game on the PC so I think some level of coverage is warranted based on that alone.

I'm the same. When the third Tomb Raider game came to PS4 a year after Xbox, I ignored it at full price because although it may be new to me (I didn't have an Xbox back then), in my head its an "old" game. I eventually forgot about it entirely and at some point it was added to my PS4/PS5 account through some 'free' (*not free) subscription and now it's just sat there in my library, maybe never going to be played.

Stupid over-thinking judgemental brain.. :yep2:
 
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A 4090 with everything maxxed, no DLSS at 4k. 😲
Jesus. I hate this. It makes RT on older cards completely unplayable. Something like a 2060 is now incapable of running this game (which is a PS4 cross gen game mind you) at 1080p60 with DLSS and Raytracing like it should.

Jensen needs to calm down. I get he wants to sell his 4090 but this is even a terrible look for the 4090. That card should be doing native 4K 90 fps easily with RT maxed out on a game like this.

This destroys the reputation of Raytracing and further cements it as a performance hog you should turn off in the mind of gamers.

UE4 Raytracing is truly the worst urgh and now its even worse because Jensen wants to destroy RT performance on older cards. I would not be so against this if it would actually make a difference of two generations. If it would look closer to a cinematic movie, like a Pixar movie. That RTX Racer demo for example is groundbreaking and I get that is only something a 4090 could do. But when you look at the screenshots from GamerGPU in this Sackboy game the difference is laughable!

This needs just as much attention as stutter struggle, those horrible optimized RT effects that destroy performance for no reason...
 
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