Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

[pjbliverpool]

Spiderman RT primer

Very very well put together video, extremely informative.

As I wrote in different subject, strange comparison to rtx 2060 (ps5 gpu should be closer to 2070super) but very informative video.

Don't forget that DF have an XSX in their hands (maybe PS5 too?) and while they can't publish results yet, you know they'll have done extensive performance comparisons already. And no-one does performance comparisons like Digital Foundry.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

They're all located in different places. I seriously doubt they've got a PS5 yet. More likely that they're basing the comparison on RT performance, as others have already stated.

 

[snc]

Don't forget that DF have an XSX in their hands (maybe PS5 too?) and while they can't publish results yet, you know they'll have done extensive performance comparisons already. And no-one does performance comparisons like Digital Foundry.

and ? don't understand connection with spiderman rt video edit: ok I get it, they know xsx performance, and you think alex interpolet that ps5 is 20% slower and it's close to rtx2060super, good theroy but I don't agree with it

 

[PSman1700]

well he argumented it by bandwidth which is quite bizzare considering rtx 2080 also has 448gb/s and other argument was that rtx 2060super has performance similar to rx 5700 which is 8tf rdna 1 which is even more bizzare argument

And now your comparing different architectures.

RX5700 XT is ~ 9.8 TF at advertised top boost (some cards can clock higher). At an average game clock of ~ 1.8 gHz that's still clearly above 9 TF.

2060S is likely to be rather ahead of next gen consoles in terms of RT performance. Using a 2080 would not make this investigation of performance vs compromise any more meaningful. If anything, it would only make it less so.

And then we should not forget that say a RTX2060, 2070 etc perform way above what NV as advertised in raw TF metrics.

Also, DF compared PS4 to 7850 yes. Which was spot on, it perfoms equal to base ps4 at the same settings in most titles. If not better.

Don't forget that DF have an XSX in their hands (maybe PS5 too?) and while they can't publish results yet, you know they'll have done extensive performance comparisons already. And no-one does performance comparisons like Digital Foundry.

Yes people doubt DF way too much, they know things

 

[snc]

And now your comparing different architectures.

I or Alex suggetsting that 10tf rdna2 is like 8tf rdna 1 ?

 

[function]

he compared to rx5700 not xt

I've just gone through the video again. I might have missed it, but where did he mention the RX 5700? Could you link to the timestamp?

 

[snc]

I've just gone through the video again. I might have missed it, but where did he mention the RX 5700? Could you link to the timestamp?

sure

now I noticed another bizzare argument "it also has 8gb of vram", I didn't know ps5 has 8gb of vram ;d

 

[pjbliverpool]

and ? don't understand connection with spiderman rt video edit: ok I get it, they know xsx performance, and you think alex interpolet that ps5 is 20% slower and it's close to rtx2060super, good theroy but I don't agree with it

Yes pretty much this. And also that he's probably referring to Ray tracing performance.

 

[PSman1700]

now I noticed another bizzare argument "it also has 8gb of vram", I didn't know ps5 has 8gb of vram ;d

We dont know, probably comparable to 8GB vram GPU yes. PS5 has 16GB ram total, it has to share it with the whole system.

Yes pretty much this. And also that he's probably referring to Ray tracing performance.

Probably rasterization perf too, 2060S seems very close to it theoretically seen.

 

[function]

sure

now I noticed another bizzare argument "it also has 8gb of vram", I didn't know ps5 has 8gb of vram ;d

Ah, I was listening to the dialogue. I assume a typo. Perhaps @Dictator can clarify. I think 2070 performs a step up from the 5700, and its closest AMD counterpart is the 5700 XT. Apart from in ray tracing (i.e. the subject of this video) where even a 2060 none S would smash any current AMD architecture, assuming you weren't crippled by the 6 GB of ram.

On current games 8 GB is enough you aren't typically running onto PCIe bottlenecks, even at 4K. Both the 5700 / XT and the 2060S have the same 8GB. If you're interested in the processing/performance cost alone 8GB is fine for what he's doing and the games he's doing it with.

Edit: And 8 GB of vram would probably be enough to match next gen consoles for most things more or less, possible use of SFS excepted. I don't expect to see an RTX 3070 struggle with PS5 games.

 

[snc]

We dont know, probably comparable to 8GB vram GPU yes. PS5 has 16GB ram total, it has to share it with the whole system.

xsx has 16gb total but only 10 for gpu because of not uniform bandwidth, ps5 can only have more (but I not suggesting it will be impactful difference), theory that it has 8 for gpu is bizzare or to be honest just wrong

 

[snc]

Ah, I was listening to the dialogue. I assume a typo. Perhaps @Dictator can clarify. I think 2070 performs a step up from the 5700, and its closest AMD counterpart is the 5700 XT. Apart from in ray tracing (i.e. the subject of this video) where even a 2060 none S would smash any current AMD architecture, assuming you weren't crippled by the 6 GB of ram.

On current games 8 GB is enough you aren't typically running onto PCIe bottlenecks, even at 4K. Both the 5700 / XT and the 2060S have the same 8GB. If you're interested in the processing/performance cost alone 8GB is fine for what he's doing and the games he's doing it with.

if he clearly said in terms of rt then fine, possible as rdna2 rt will probably be less capable than rtx geforces but yeah, suggesting that ps5 gpu is like 8tf rdna 1 with 8gb vram is just wrong

 

[pjbliverpool]

On current games 8 GB is enough you aren't typically running onto PCIe bottlenecks, even at 4K. Both the 5700 / XT and the 2060S have the same 8GB. If you're interested in the processing/performance cost alone 8GB is fine for what he's doing and the games he's doing it with.

Yes exactly. He's just pointing out that VRAM size won't be a bottleneck, unlike the standard RTX 2060 with only 6GB VRAM where it might be.

 

[PSman1700]

xsx has 16gb total but only 10 for gpu because of not uniform bandwidth, ps5 can only have more (but I not suggesting it will be impactful difference), theory that it has 8 for gpu is bizzare or to be honest just wrong

It's very hard to compare like that. PS4 has 8GB total, but a 7850 or 7870 with 2GB competes just fine. I dont think DF is wrong or lying or whatever theories some like to come up with, they know more then we do and share their opinions.

suggesting that ps5 gpu is like 8tf rdna 1 with 8gb vram is just wrong

He doesn't, if he compares to a vanilla 2070 or 2060S, it's very close in theoretical TF performance. The 2070 perfoms very close to 10TF (boost).
And ofc in RT, its probably well below what a Turing 2060 does yes. Regarding RAM, again, we have no idea, but 8GB probably will be fine. Also, wasn't SSDs going to substitute for RAM besides rendering?
That would mean with RTX IO any ram size would suffice.

 

[snc]

It's very hard to compare like that. PS4 has 8GB total, but a 7850 or 7870 with 2GB competes just fine. I dont think DF is wrong or lying or whatever theories some like to come up with, they know more then we do and share their opinions.



He doesn't, if he compares to a vanilla 2070 or 2060S, it's very close in theoretical TF performance. The 2070 perfoms very close to 10TF (boost).
And ofc in RT, its probably well below what a Turing 2060 does yes. Regarding RAM, again, we have no idea, but 8GB probably will be fine. Also, wasn't SSDs going to substitute for RAM besides rendering?
That would mean with RTX IO any ram size would suffice.

yeah it's very close but probably if he compared xsx to rtx 2070 (not super) you would be surpised, about this rtx io - no, it will not be substitute of ram but it will be necessary in future if pc want to have games like ratchet and clank ps5 (portals feature)

 

[function]

if he clearly said in terms of rt then fine, possible as rdna2 rt will probably be less capable than rtx geforces but yeah, suggesting that ps5 gpu is like 8tf rdna 1 with 8gb vram is just wrong

I think the 8GB is fine, but in terms of none RT rendering then you're right, 8TF RDNA is below the area where PS5 will be operating even when pushed, aside from possibly in terms of bandwidth on occasion.

In terms of RT though comparing any RDNA 1 card to any Turing card is extremely generous.

Oh, and I don't expect any special sauce from XSX in this regard either. XSX has an 18%+ flop and TMU advantage and a 25% BW advantage. I expect any RT advantage XSX has to be inline with those numbers same as everything else, with no magic RTX matching capability hidden in there.

Infact, if anything is going to help XSX it's going to be INT8 and INT4 capability, and that's assuming they can develop the software to leverage that (still much slower than even bottom end RTX so don't expect too much).

 

[PSman1700]

yeah it's very close but probably if he compared xsx to rtx 2070 (not super) you would be surpised

Seeing that he already compared the PS5 to the 2070 (or 2060 super), yes that would be strange. But he didn't, he probably would say around 2070S and 2080. In ray tracing below 2060 aswell.

in terms of none RT rendering then you're right, 8TF RDNA is below the area where PS5 will be operating even when pushed, aside from possibly in terms of bandwidth on occasion.

But no one did compare PS5 to 8TF? RTX 2070 is about 10TF in reality.

 

[snc]

But no one did compare PS5 to 8TF? RTX 2070 is about 10TF in reality.

he suggested showing description that 2060 super is similar to rtx 5070 in perfomrance (checked my prevous posts)

 

[snc]

Seeing that he already compared the PS5 to the 2070 (or 2060 super), yes that would be strange. But he didn't, he probably would say around 2070S and 2080. In ray tracing below 2060 aswell.
.

but you shouldn't couse your previous argument is that it's close

 

[function]

But no one did compare PS5 to 8TF? RTX 2070 is about 10TF in reality.

DF said (a typo IMO) that a 5700 was about the same as a 2070, but that's actually a 5700 XT. I think it came from there.

That's in terms of normal, none RT graphics of course. In terms of RT ... well ... we'll see, but I don't think it'll be above the 2060.