Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Jan 1, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jupiter

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    It is also impressive to see changing time and weather in the same area in realtime and in every other area of the game. In one moment you have clear weather and then you slowly see it becoming a heavy thunderstorm. There is a special feeling and atmosphere in those moments which cannot be achived with simple static lighting.

    Therefore, it does not make sense to compare static levels with open world games that have changing weather and times of day.
     
    #721 Jupiter, Jun 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
    function, Dictator and PSman1700 like this.
  2. DavidGraham

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    3,975
    RDR 2 on PC is something else, everything is cranked up to 11, character and animal densities are increased, number of dynamic lights, reflections and shadows too, with massive draw distances. The world of Last of Us 2 is mostly static, in RDR2 everything changes and remains beautiful while doing so. RDR 2 combines both technical achievements with solid art direction.
     
    #722 DavidGraham, Jun 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
    BRiT and PSman1700 like this.
  3. Karamazov

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,618
    Likes Received:
    3,492
    Location:
    France
    one thing that always impressed me in RDR2 is foliage LOD, it is so so hard to notice where the grass in being drawn in the distance, something that even in TLOU2 is noticeable, though density is higher than in RDR2.
     
  4. JoeJ

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    TLOU2 Looks great. Makes me a bit envious i'm no console gamer.
    I really like correct baked lighting. We do not see this that often recently, and it's still the only way to give me an overall 'looks good' impression. RDR2 can't compete this and often looks even bad to me, like most games do.
     
  5. chris1515

    Legend Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,981
    Likes Received:
    6,102
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
  6. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    14,423
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Location:
    London, UK
    sir doris and London Geezer like this.
  7. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,103
    Likes Received:
    2,287
    Baked lighting done right is still the way to go if the game doesn't require any form of dynamic lighting (which is not where the industry is going though...). But TLOU2 is far from being a good example of it. On the contrary. Its lighting is embarrassingly bad in many cases and far worst that RDR2 (who is fully dynamic to boot..)..

    Stop at any random point in the DF video & marvel at the amazing lighting...

    Great example of the superbe GI according to the DF bloke ...what ?? this looks atrocious:
    [​IMG]

    Grass barely has any AO (well everything seems to lack AO in the game essentially and looks utterly flat) Uncharted 4 & Lost Legacy are way more consistant..

    [​IMG]


    Let's not talk about how the E3 2018 "gameplay demo" compares to the final product in terms of lighting, animation & shading...

    Character lighting is all wrong/flat in the retail game. Control, Horizon, Spiderman, Death Stranding, RDR2 etc are way more consistant and better looking. TLOU2 has the best facial animation bar none though.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

     
    PSman1700 and BRiT like this.
  8. eloyc

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,441
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    I agree with most parts of your message, but in this case (besides the lo-res shadows) I don't see where's the atrocity. I think it looks nice and realistic.
     
  9. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    8,479
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    There's a stark disconnect in lighting on the stairs and the walls. :p

    The wall & railing cast the main shadow, but then there's no self-shadow of the steps.
     
    #729 TheAlSpark, Jun 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
    tinokun, DSoup, BRiT and 1 other person like this.
  10. eloyc

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,441
    Likes Received:
    1,591
    It may look weird but I thought that was because of the angle of the light...:???:
     
  11. London Geezer

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    23,402
    Likes Received:
    9,099
    Going through the youtube video and finding frames that don't look amazing is hardly a fair assessment. Play the game. It looks overwhelmingly and consistently good. Sure we can all find little places here and there that don't hold up, in every game. Remember this is running on a 1.8TF GPU and the shittiest CPU ever made, people!
     
  12. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,278
    Likes Received:
    20,046
    This is why hyperboles and over-hyping takes away from the actual final product. Saying something is next-gen opens it up to all the criticism its receiving, rightfully so.
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  13. London Geezer

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    23,402
    Likes Received:
    9,099
    Some of the cut-scenes sure make me wonder how they will be able to top it in the next gen and provide that 'next gen jump' that we are expecting. But this looks decidedly like a PS4 game, with all the limitations we can expect from that.
     
    BRiT likes this.
  14. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,033
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Okay. I guess you were trying to be sarcastic but here's three random captures and it ain't looking as bad as you're wanting it to. For my sampling I just clicked on the timeline four times. One was a developer image of a character close-up and not gameplay so I didn't include it.

    upload_2020-6-22_17-56-8.png


    upload_2020-6-22_17-56-54.png


    upload_2020-6-22_17-57-2.png

    [​IMG]

    Actually, he was talking about the effective colour bounce. The real problem with that scene is the lack of shadows cast by the steps.
     
    DxCore, goonergaz, jayco and 3 others like this.
  15. JoeJ

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Looks like they forgot to update the walls after adding the stairs :)

    I wonder how the workflow is here. It's not possible to rebake the whole game after doing some edits. I would assume an automatic system rebakes some area around changes and uses some falloff at the boundary to blend with previous results?
    So either it's a bug in that system, or they do this indeed manually and forgot something.

    RDR2 looks good to me only rarely. For most it looks terrible. Though i don't wanna be picky against open world games.

    It's interesting to see how different opinions people have, comparing those games. Expectations are different, perception, sense and tolerance to different kinds of errors... all very subjective.
    Did we had this before? Or is it because we are at the sole of uncanny valley at the moment?
     
  16. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Location:
    France
    So am I the only one to be really bothered by the awful image quality ? you all really can see through this mud and admire what's left of the textures and effects ?

    I am talking about TLOU2.
     
    Ike Turner and iroboto like this.
  17. Dictator

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    1,747
    Just as a Personal opinion: baked lighting does not too much to excite me. My mind always sees the raw disconnect in visual style and look between dynamic and static objects (almost like Cartoons of old that use matte background with cells over them). It also invariably has disconnect and leaks and what not in it's own right, and misaligned specular.

    That and I do not find it a technically interesting solution to "lighting a game". I like dynamic things.

    Just my two Cents.
     
  18. JoeJ

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Technically, baking is still an interesting and challenging problem. Just because innovation moves to the offline side of things it's still innovation.

    I often thought about baked lighting like in The Order, but making lobe directions adaptive and optimize it so it can capture HF specular.
    This paper does this, and results are really good: http://web.student.chalmers.se/groups/gfx-web/Spherical Gaussian Light-field Textures for Fast Precomputed Global Illumination.pdf

    But when using this, the terrible rim lighting effect from fresnel and specular probes for dynamic objects would appear even more terrible i guess.
    So we could use RT now, but only on dynamic objects to fix this and add some bounce lighting. And also for the static scene to add some occlusion from dynamic objects - maybe capsules would do.
    I'd like to see that in a game. Total eye candy eventually :)
     
  19. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,525
    Likes Received:
    14,542
    Location:
    The North
    lighting and shadows. Everything else is already there in great quantities.
     
    DSoup and London Geezer like this.
  20. Goodtwin

    Veteran Newcomer Subscriber

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    660


    A very solid conversion of the game to Switch. I have been playing it since the release on Friday, and have really enjoyed it. VG Tech had previously stated that the game used dynamic resolution, but after watching the DF video, it seems like its more complicated than that. Apparently some parts of the image will reduce rendering resolution while leaving other parts at the 900p docked or 720p portable. Framerate holds tight to 60fps 99% of the time, but there are a few areas that can cause dips into the mid 50's. I have experienced some brief dips during races that werent really specific to a certain area of the map, but all in all, this game meets its target of 60fps the majority of the time. This isnt a Platinum game where 60fps is the target, and it dips into the low 40's often. Graphic settings appear to be closer to the PS4/X1 Remastered version than the original 360/PS3 build. Textures, lighting, shadows, partical effects and draw distance all surpass the last gen version and at a higher resolution. As a Switch gamer, this is another example of how well suited Switch is to getting superior versions of last generation games.

    Unfortunately for this otherwise solid port, EA doomed it on arrival by pricing it at $50. Switch gamers understand that these late arrival ports to Switch arent going to see the bargain bin price the PS4/X1 versions currently have, but when the PS4/X1 version of Burnout Paradise Remastered launched at $40 on PS4/X1 two years ago, it will be a tough pill to swallow for many Switch gamers to shell out $50 for it on Switch.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...