Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2020]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by BRiT, Jan 1, 2020.

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  1. Shortbread

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    Next month is going to be quite interesting...
     
  2. Shortbread

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    Supposedly XBSS has RT shadows as well.
     
  3. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    As DF have also said a few times, this is bad. The adoption rate of VRR-capable TVs is around .5% - and of that tiny number, the number of TVs capable of VRR between 60 and 120hz is even smaller. Games cannot be engineered on the basis that the user will have a TV capable of fixing frame-pacing issues because almost no bugger has one. :nope:

    Performance is mostly great though and hopefully the devs they can address the issues causing the rare frame issues.

    It's a fascinating mental leap that some console gamers have traversed from "30 frames a second is fine" to "what is this 118 frames a second travesty" in a matter of weeks. :lol2:
     
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  4. Karamazov

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    I'm still fine with 30fps,have not touched yet the 60fps mode in spiderman !
     
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  5. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I have been fine with 30fps for generations but having played a few days of Valhalla, Astrobot and Sackboy at 60fps, then Dirt at 60fps then 120fps, dropping into Miles Morales at 30fps was jarring. 60fps worked for me better, I'm never standing around long enough to appreciate the reflections!

    I have played some other 30fps games and after a few minutes, I adjust but it's jarring initially.
     
  6. jlippo

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    If someone manages to get shader to run single threaded, I would expect it to be quite slow. ;)
     
  7. turkey

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    The 120hz Vrr might be a small minority of overall users but given both are getting a push in Hdmi 2.1 I would think very shortly a high percentage of uses who can experience 120hz will have vrr (existing monitor users will also be padding this already). The two seem very well suited given how demanding 120fps is.

    It seems on Xbox there is already a call for the game to know if it's under VRR and it can choose what it wants to do differently. Going all in knowing you will be fluctuating ~10% but at max visuals might be acceptable then.

    60 for the majority should be as close to a lock as possible.
     
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  8. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I didn't quite follow this, but to be clear I'm not saying games shouldn't use VRR, I'm saying that developers should not engineer games on the basis that frame pacing isn't a problem that needs to be solved because it will take years for 150+ million console users to upgrade their TVs to solve this problem.

    In the case of COD, Valhalla and Dirt, these just seems to be bugs that I'm sure will be smoothed out in time.

    Also, I wish you well in the coming weeks. The annual culling of your kind, must be trying. :yep2:
     
  9. RDGoodla

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    PS5 will support VRR via system update. It is not an issue.
     
  10. London Geezer

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    I had to read 4 times to understand it. Well played! :lol:
     
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  11. jayco

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    Mmmm... so on PC RT is limited to shadows as well, no reflections? Why are these devices for peasants hindering the full overclocked RGB experience?

    We need a PC comparison as well. Full RDNA2 vs Ampere.
     
  12. PSman1700

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    We are going to hear this alot :)
     
  13. London Geezer

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    I love how the narrative when PS5 has a bit of an advantage here and there is "This can't be, must be a bug" but when the X is ahead it's like "oMg SuPeRiOriTy MaStErFul RaCe" :runaway:
     
  14. mr magoo

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    The comments sections of every comparsion video on youtube is a real treat. Maybe is because of lockdown and isolation people have more anger in them that they gladly ventilate in this noble console war.
     
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  15. eloyc

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    These attitudes predate the lockdown by a long shot, just saying...
     
  16. Karamazov

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    and that's why we have to keep this very forum civilized. I love tech discussions, and like to read where and why there are differences in versions of games.
    I like the speculation and analysis provided, searching for explanations and hypothesis. No matter what version comes better, it's nice to be able to see how two design choices perform and compare, and how they'll evolve. It's more like PS2 VS Xbox, than XB1 VS PS4 which was almost only a case of different resolutions and we were done, so boring, though we had the strange case of AF :grin:
     
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  17. iroboto

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    If the only separation between the two hardware is noticeable only at 120fps. It’s a far way from being a next gen title. They are hardly pushing the system as much as they should be.

    Reminds me of GPU benchmarks where Titans are competing at 1080p for 240fps or something ridiculous where the CPU is bottleneck again.
    120fps is a very difficult target to maintain, I am with DSoup in the laugh that people will think they will notice 10fps drops at 120fps. 120fps to 60fps, okay. That’s going to feel like you went from a jet to landing in jello, but minor fluctuations will mean nothing for most people. VRR just makes it entirely a nothing burger
     
    #2737 iroboto, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  18. scently

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    You say that like it's not happening in this very thread.....

    For my part, I wouldn't draw any long-term conclusions from the small sample size we have for systems that are going to last for the next 6 to seven years based on launch titles with all the conditions and situations surrounding them that we know of and those we are not privy to. That would be like using MGS Rising, BF4, and COD Ghost and coming to the conclusion that X1 would run all future software at 720p and that the PS4 will run all future software at 1080p no exception. Or Use the state at which games launched on the PS3 in 2006 to definitively state that it would always perform suboptimally and behind the 360. History has told us otherwise. I would just take these results as they are at this point in time.
     
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  19. DSoup

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    I think that's going a bit far. The available performance of PS5/XSX consoles is, for the visual design goal of many game designers, far beyond what they need to deliver their vision. If you finish your game and find you're only using 60% of RAM/bandwidth/compute/CPU, are you supposed to go back and start jamming more crap into the game? I don't think that's desirable at all. You may have a chunk of capacity left untapped but you're into the realm of diminishing returns ing amping up other effects, which can be disproportionately costly in terms of improving the quality.

    In such cases, offering a 120fps mode is very cool. I've only played Dirt 5 in 120fps and while it was a nice experience, I personally find 60fps image quality mode preferable for me.
     
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  20. liams

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    If VRR gets widespread adoption I wonder if we will get dynamic framerate targets, not in the way we have them now, but for example, in slower, more cinematic sequences the target framerate might be 45-60 fps, but in an intense action moment the target frame rate would increase to 120, with a dip in image quality. If they did it well it would be the best of both worlds, quality when you can slow down and enjoy the view and responsiveness when you need it
     
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