Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2022] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Flappy Pannus]

The quality is not that inconsistent. You find the same thing in almost every game. Cyberpunk 2077 is even better than most games because many things still look sharp up close. In third-person games the objects would usually look worse at a short distance. For example, in RDR 2 almost everything looks blurred in the first-person perspective. The character faces in particular. RDR2 looks very good. No question about that. But while I thought "thats a beautiful landcape" while playing RDR2 I think "how awesome is that. How is that possible." in Cyberpunk 2077.

RDR2 definitely shows it's age too, but it's a game that was targeted for the last gen consoles and its art assets were designed around those restrictions, even if the PC version has some significant upgrades. 2077 was a game designed for modern systems from the outset and shoehorned (badly) into the last gen. I would be comparing Cyberpunk more to modern games, such as Ratchet and Clank, Horizon Forbidden West, Metro Exodus Enhanced, Demon Souls, etc. Compared to those, Cyberpunk just doesn't blow me away when all aspects of presentation are considered.

Artistically the world of Cyberpunk 2077 is also breathtaking and dense. It's not just the technology.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm sure part of it is I don't have a 3080+ class GPU too, it is a game that will no doubt scale better than most with the upcoming Lovelace/RDNA3 GPU's - but I feel even those won't fix a lot of the general 'wonkiness' I experience, in gameplay and presentation consistency.

 

[PSman1700]

I would be comparing Cyberpunk more to modern games, such as Ratchet and Clank, Horizon Forbidden West, Metro Exodus Enhanced, Demon Souls, etc. Compared to those, Cyberpunk just doesn't blow me away when all aspects of presentation are considered.

And thats when i think 2077 is just so impressive, when looking at the total picture of its graphics. When maxed its a notch or so above FW, rift apart and DS i think. No idea about Metro as i have not played it enough.

 

[Dampf]

ARK 2 has true current gen graphics, simply incredible and looks like GCI

Now I know what you are thinking, "no way this is real time, this must be CGI" right?

Zoom into the fur of these dinos and you will see typical TAA artifacts.

Muddy textures can be seen in image 3.

Yup, this is real time.

 

[iroboto]

E

ARK 2 has true current gen graphics, simply incredible and looks like GCI

View attachment 6825

View attachment 6826

Now I know what you are thinking, "no way this is real time, this must be CGI" right?

Zoom into the fur of these dinos and you will see typical TAA artifacts.

Muddy textures can be seen in image 3.

Yup, this is real time.

Ehh. Let’s wait for the final release and in game visuals before calling it real time.

 

[PSman1700]

We want this to be how the final game looks. Would be the Avatar game level (if thats realtime) if true. Then still, two games that are at this level, two years in.....

 

[Dampf]

Yeah, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, ARK 2, Hellblade 2 and Spiderman 2 are the only true current gen games we know about and they're still a long way off. The only current gen game we have is Ratchet and Clank...

Really such a damn shame how long cross gen is lasting. The PS4 launched with Killzone as a true next gen showcase and literally every other generation did too.

I can only hope this suffering will end soon and the current consoles can finally be allowed to demonstrate what they are capable of.

 

[PSman1700]

Yeah, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, ARK 2, Hellblade 2 and Spiderman 2 are the only true current gen games we know about and they're still a long way off. The only current gen game we have is Ratchet and Clank...

Really such a damn shame how long cross gen is lasting. The PS4 launched with Killzone as a true next gen showcase and literally every other generation did too.

I can only hope this suffering will end soon and the current consoles can finally be allowed to demonstrate what they are capable of.

I think Rift Apart is a showcase for the PS5's capabilities in its own form. 2077 is on the list for me too, atleast the pc version. Its clearly targetting way beyond the last generation of hardware seeing it couldnt really scale down to them.

 

[snc]

 

[PSman1700]

Talking about art and 2077, its actually very well crafted and accurate. Its a weird comparison to Rift Apart whos aim is more fantasy then accuracy compared to 2077. Both art styles are very well done in their own right.

 

[Remij]

ARK 2 has true current gen graphics, simply incredible and looks like GCI


Now I know what you are thinking, "no way this is real time, this must be CGI" right?

Zoom into the fur of these dinos and you will see typical TAA artifacts.

Muddy textures can be seen in image 3.

Yup, this is real time.

Never forget..

 

[PSman1700]

How Spiderman type game should be played (open world), not my pc/video

 

[Jupiter]

Not really. Through the tiny screen size the immersion comes far too short. From my point of vew games should be ideally played with something like this.

As large a screen as possible for immersion. Preferably the new 97 inch OLED. If not then at least 77 inches.
16:9 screen ratio is ideal from my point of view
Sitting as close as possible to the screen.
As good speakers as possible. In addition, good room acoustics and calibration at sub 300 Hz frequencies.
As high sound volume as possible. Louder than in the family-friendly cinema.

Talking about art and 2077, its actually very well crafted and accurate. Its a weird comparison to Rift Apart whos aim is more fantasy then accuracy compared to 2077. Both art styles are very well done in their own right.

Yes, the city is really artistically outstanding. They know exactly what to do. Almost every part seems well thought out.

 

[PSman1700]

om my point of vew games should be ideally played with something like this.

Yeah well, if you have your own cinema at home

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Not really. Through the tiny screen size the immersion comes far too short. From my point of vew games should be ideally played with something like this.

I game 5-6' ft away from a 55" TV in a reclined chair so sure, desktop monitors are not my thing either - but that beast is 49". That completely envelops your field of vision at that distance, and it's 240hz to boot. I'll sit in a cheap-ass office chair for that experience.

 

[Dampf]

So, I am a bit worried about Hardware Raytracing in UE5 and I fear devs might choose to disable it entirely.

HW-RT has a hefty limitation and that is: If a game has over 100k instances running, HW-RT will be much slower.

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This is a fantastic UE5 demo you can download and curious as I am, I reached out to the developer to find out if they were using HW-RT.

Turns out, it's not using HW-RT because the demo has too much foliage (over 100k instances) and the dev decided its the better option to disable it as it would look and run worse compared to software RT mode.

So it seems these 100k instances are easily reachable in such a high detailed game as this. Now I wonder, what does this mean for future Triple A games? Will developers disable HW-RT, leaving those Ray accelerators/ RT cores wasted? And if not, what happens if developers are not aware of this limitation and have HW-RT enabled on supported hardware, leading to much worse performance on modern GPUs compared to old ones?

@Dictator @Andrew Lauritzen

I am curious to hear your opinions.

 

[PSman1700]

Would mean UE5 wouldnt see any RT at all then.

 

[Jupiter]

RDR2 definitely shows it's age too, but it's a game that was targeted for the last gen consoles and its art assets were designed around those restrictions, even if the PC version has some significant upgrades. 2077 was a game designed for modern systems from the outset and shoehorned (badly) into the last gen. I would be comparing Cyberpunk more to modern games, such as Ratchet and Clank, Horizon Forbidden West, Metro Exodus Enhanced, Demon Souls, etc. Compared to those, Cyberpunk just doesn't blow me away when all aspects of presentation are considered.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm sure part of it is I don't have a 3080+ class GPU too, it is a game that will no doubt scale better than most with the upcoming Lovelace/RDNA3 GPU's - but I feel even those won't fix a lot of the general 'wonkiness' I experience, in gameplay and presentation consistency.

Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition has modern lighting but much of the rest looks dated. That's why I wouldn't rank it in the upper range visually. A Minecraft or Quake with complete path-tracing lighting doesn't beat everything either.

On the other hand Cyberpunk 2077 is top tier in all other non-raytracing areas areas like assets, voumetrics, density etc. as well. Specifically the assets are sharper and better than in a game of the last generation. When playing the game you can see that the budget must be enormous. I once read something about 300 million USD. Then there is the lighting which separates it completely from the last generation in terms of effects. I saw a unprecedented lighting that were not possible before. Due all of these factors Cyberpunk 2077 is a new generation game through and through.

The fastest AMD card manages just 20 fps at the highest settings in 1440p while an RTX 3090 manages twice that even without DLSS which would double that again. Hardware accelerators are genius. Since the current consoles are not so well equipped with raytracing accelerators I'm curious to see how console games will distinguish from games of the last generation. Such a real-time GI as from Crytek stands out from the last generation even without ray tracing but still that GI cannot hold up with well made raytracing lighting.

I game 5-6' ft away from a 55" TV in a reclined chair so sure, desktop monitors are not my thing either - but that beast is 49". That completely envelops your field of vision at that distance, and it's 240hz to boot. I'll sit in a cheap-ass office chair for that experience.

I played once briefly on a monitor and even if it takes up a large field of view, it still seems small. Starships in Star Citizen seemed small or even the Xenomorph from Alien. On a big TV or screen what you see seems more real. Even if it takes up less field of view.

Would mean UE5 wouldnt see any RT at all then.

Didn't the Matrix demo also had raytracing?

 

[PSman1700]

Didn't the Matrix demo also had raytracing?

It does though if thats not viable then nothing else is.

 

[Dampf]

Matrix demo has no foliage aside from some trees, so it makes sense it's under 100k instances. But nearly every game has foliage, sometimes a ton of it and rock formations also increase instances with a lot of overlapping meshes. This is why the Ancient Valley demo also had disabled HW-Raytracing... :/

So it appears like the Matrix Demo is an exception rather than the rule of HW-RT being viable.

 

[davis.anthony]

On the other hand Cyberpunk 2077 is top tier in all other non-raytracing areas areas like assets.

Specifically the assets are sharper and better than in a game of the last generation.

The game is plastered with assets that have base Xbox One level geometry and textures.

It's arguable the most inconsistent game released from memory when it comes to asset consistency.