Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shortbread, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. snc

    snc
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    yeah I thought that there was xsx tests but didn't know nioh2 is not on xbox platform, edit: now curious what are loading times on pc with ssd
     
    #521 snc, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  2. Allandor

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    It is unlocked but still tripple buffer VSYNCed to output at 60Hz. So It is capped @60fps.
    Like with so many games, that reach 60. It could go higher, but above that, VRR would really be necessary.
     
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  3. goonergaz

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    Well it's still an advantage to XSX so unsure why something affecting XSX due to CPU won't affect the PS5 which has essentially the same CPU...

    ...ah ok, well there may be other surprises - but this is complete rumour at this stage

    Edit - thought I'd also mention MS are talking about higher framerates more than Sony - more 120fps titles etc.
     
  4. Dictator

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    The PC version does have the sharp reflection there - it is just that the transparent surface of the glass is but a few centimetres away from the surface of the bronze behind it. That makes it so the reflections are very close to eachother spatially from that degree angle of view. The playstation 5 version for some reason offsets the reflection there in a way that is rather physically implausible.
     
  5. HLJ

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    This is hillarious...erroneous rendering is touted as "better"...and a "win"...all the rage over mid/low-range settings...excuse me while I ROFL...
     
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  6. snc

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    in nxgamer video he suggests superior io design of ps5 making cpu less loaded in specific cases with streaming data
     
  7. goonergaz

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    I'm unsure how that can be - if RT is a system which does the calculations based on the objects, how can it be 'implausible' and how can 3 versions vary like this?

    Genuine question - it's just my understanding of how RT works. I get bugs etc (like the XSX example) but not this...
     
  8. goonergaz

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    Yes (and I agree), but others are saying it's the CPU - not the IO...if the IO isn't helping the CPU your point doesn't work.

    Edit - I re-read @Globalisateur comments, he's saying CPU because it's helped out by not have to do the IO tasks, therefore he's saying it's the IO on PS5 which is making it run better in gameplay.

    The main question is this, does the CPU have anything else that's helping it outperform the XSX CPU or is the IO helping 'lower the load' on CPU which is in turn helping the CPU out perform the XSX CPU.
     
    #528 goonergaz, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  9. snc

    snc
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    yes, it helps in specific cases
     
  10. mr magoo

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    Can you point me when in the video he mentions "superior io design"? And also "superior" to what? Pc ssd setup or xsx direct storage?
     
  11. snc

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    he doesn't use superior word, but you can heard his io advantage suggestions in 8:50 - 9:15 and 14:06-15:30
     
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  12. zed

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    Yes thats true on the PS5 the 2nd reflective blurry surface looks a long way away, 20cm or so
    but it doesnt explain why on the PC the lights reflections have super sharp edges (very defined) yet the person is super blurry.
    Maybe they done DOF on the mirror! :)

    OK found the video from where the images came from


    xbox having major problems 3:48 to 4:00
    yes it looks like the ps5 has the gold reflection at the wrong depth
     
    #532 zed, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  13. mr magoo

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    yes he mentions that ps5 can shuffle stuff from ram without involving cpu and similar technology is available on xsx (and coming to pc as well) called direct storage. Xsx is most probably straight forward PC version without any direct storage implementation, he never mention once "superior io design"
     
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  14. iroboto

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    This is sort of the issue explained:
    [​IMG]

    The PC and XSX versions are the same. The black circle is where Jessie should be standing. The diffuse and mirror reflections are based off the black circle for PC and XSX. For PS5 the black circle is for the diffuse reflection, the red circle for the glass reflection. And I agree, it's physically implausible to have that level of separation of the glass and wall reflection unless they are _much_ further apart as per the diagram.

    Not sure how PS5 got the red circle, except they may have messed up a calculation on limiting the angle allowed back to the camera. ie. it's a bug in their RT algorithm. They just need to go back and figure out where those rays are being traced to I think. Seems like they traced the angle to a camera that doesn't exist, and forced it back onto the actual player camera. I dunno, that's what it looks like to me.
     
  15. snc

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    "its great example how this two consoles actualy differ, (...) you can lose 16% maybe 20% in rt mode on ps5 but you can lose exactly the same 16-20% in this point where its loading data..." so clearly he suggests ps5 advatnage in io aspects and theory that xsx has as good called dirrect storage but simply not used as its only pc port is your theory (not saying its not true) not nxgamer ;)
     
  16. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    They run completely different APIs' and different development kits.

    If the XSX version is a complete port of PC, ie: very little done to change it; then back when PC was made they were only going to target a handful of CPU cores for multi-tasking/offloading cores to do work. Typically back then 4 cores with 4 threads was sufficient. (Corei5); and they likely developed the entire PC game around this number. So this is a consideration here. The Control CPU graphs don't look nearly as pretty as the Tomb Raider ones for instance.
    with PS5 version, they could have fully stretched it's legs to utilize all 8 cores.
    [​IMG]
    ie barely a difference on the 1% until it drops to the 2-Core, 4 Thread.
    So what good will moving to 8 core 16 thread be if they didn't re-write it for XSX. And I do wonder if those 1% nose dives are I/O issues. I mean, we haven't even gotten to optimizing the IO to leverage the SSD instead of a typical hard drive which is a completely different factor and could save tons of memory footprint if they lowered the texture footprint on memory and relied on the SSD to stream in. But hard to tell from this graph, will need to find others. We don't know what they did and didn't do. There's so much conjecture anything can be the issue.

    Even then, assuming they tried to stretch their legs for PS5 and XSX, doesn't mean XSX kit handles multicore jobs very well yet.

    There's a lot of issues at the software level I would look at for these types of IO/ CPU stutters. I don't think it's nearly as straightforward as not having enough power. Sure the issue can be brute forced to be solved, but there's not much of a discussion there to say XSX is bottlenecked if it's only been programmed to use less CPU cores that PS5 is using. That's just cutting corners to save time and money. They'll need to work it out. I think the issue is solvable provided it's not an API problem.
     
    #536 iroboto, Feb 9, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  17. cwjs

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    The game isnt particularly cpu limited on PC and the difference in photomode fps is big. I'll eat my hat if the xbox isnt running at least like ~5 fps better on average in game mode, the whole "with the very similar cpus out of the picture theres no conclusions we can draw from this test in a mostly gpu bound game" theory is incredibly silly.

    That said, it's purely academic: remedy felt neither system performed well enough to warrant a 60fps cap, so they run at 30. For remedy's purposes and this game, the consoles are effectively the same in practice. (But the xbox has those hitches, which I'm sure would exist whether it was averaging 29fps or 45fps)
     
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  18. goonergaz

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    Yes, thanks - that was the point I was trying to make - more "how can it render it wrongly - because it supposed to be automated".

    For example, in graphics mode we know why something might not look right because it's been manually created, but here we have algorithms that should do it all with extreme precision but it's actually 'accurately' out (if that makes sense)...it's like the PS5 RT 'thinks' the glass is closer than it actually is, but it's just for that one segment of glass - all the others reflect correctly...very odd!?
     
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  19. mr magoo

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    When i was i kid and lived in communist Poland there was a news radio program, one day news come that in Russia on red square they are giving away Mercedes cars for free. Few hours later there was correction to that news, that yes in fact in Russia on red square but not giving away but stealing and not mercedes but bikes. What i am trying to say is since we dont know what and how there is no need to call something superior at this stage.
     
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  20. cwjs

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    Yup! Any outright weird behavior is almost always going to be a software issue first, hardware issue second. Your game suddenly hitching and dropping several frames on a modern machine, even a low end one, isn't, usually, because its not powerful enough.

    a lot of the posters on this page are console warriors so I want to mention the upside here for sony is huge: why have ps5 games consistently seemed to come out the door in better shape so far? Clearly Sony is doing something (very important!) right.

    It's just probably not some super mega powerful hardware secret sauce that's just eating up a several frame hitch that would occur on another high end cpu.
     
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