Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[higherARC]

Shots are so blurry I can't tell.

These are quite clear. (not my images)

You can actually see if you look closely the PC and XSX has the reflections near each other which makes sense since the metal surface behind glass is less than a inch from it. Look at her shirt you can see the hard line of her shirt on her chest from the mirror like reflection. Then the metal diffuse reflection is on top. The ps5 has the mirror like reflection far off aligned which makes no sense if metal surface is only less than a inch from glass. Either way there are 2 reflections on pc/xsx

 

[Shortbread]

You can see it look at her reflection on the right from just the glass. Then match up the hard line mirror like reflection against the diffused one from the metal. Look at image 2 you can see her face mirror like reflection is off by 1-2 inches to left

I just can't tell. The only thing that I can see are heavily compressed, blurry and low quality shots.

Maybe if you can take other shots within a well lighted area that would be helpful.

 

[higherARC]

I just can't tell. The only thing that I can see are heavily compressed, blurry and low quality shots.

Maybe if you can take other shots within a well lighted area that would be helpful.

if you can’t see this then I don’t know what to say. You can see her mirror like reflection. Look at her face furthest to left. Then you see the diffused “fuzzy” reflection to the right of it inside off aligned

 

[Shortbread]

if you can’t see this then I don’t know what to say

Sorry I can't. Looks like compressed and blurry distortion (almost a very low quality chromatic aberration effect going on).

And honestly it's not a big deal. Both console editions are pretty equal from my point of view.

 

[higherARC]

Sorry I can't. Looks like compressed and blurry distortion (almost a very low quality chromatic aberration effect going on).

And honestly it's not a big deal. Both console editions are pretty equal from my point of view.

that fuzziness you mistake for compression is the actual reflection from the metal surface behi d the glass. It’s not suppose to be clear like a glass reflection. That is why you see the “blurry” reflection from the metal surface. You can see to the left a bit of her face clearer with hard lines which is the glass reflection. The 2 are over lapped. The ps5 image you posted has the 2 reflections way further apart. Pc and XSX has them more closer which looks correct cause the metal surface is directly behind the glass

the reflection you see her pale skin very colorful. Then around it you see the “ghostly” image that’s the glass reflection

 

[BRiT]

Does SD go as granular as “Series S only” or “Series X only”,

Yes. It its capable of handling differences between Series S and Series X too. Its why several Xbox Engineers and Personalities mentioned games could be smaller on Series S compared to Series X.

On last-gen Smart Delivery could differentiate Xbox One/S and One X, so it could provide different packages too.

In this situation it seems Control does not utilize Smart Delivery at all.

 

[Dictator]

You can actually see if you look closely the PC and XSX has the reflections near each other which makes sense since the metal surface behind glass is less than a inch from it. Look at her shirt you can see the hard line of her shirt on her chest from the mirror like reflection. Then the metal diffuse reflection is on top. The ps5 has the mirror like reflection far off aligned which makes no sense if metal surface is only less than a inch from glass. Either way there are 2 reflections on pc/xsx

This is in fact the case. Of course the PC version and XSX versions can have translucent reflections in front of opaque ones. Otherwise, everytime you would look through glass on XSX or PC, the entire shading would disappear. This difference being seen here, is like you said, just a matter of the Playstation 5 verison for some reason offsetting the reflection completely differently than XSX or PC verisons.

here a translucent reflection in front of opaque ones:

One thing I think also need be said is that Control is not using a path tracer. It is sending out a variety of rays testing different things - shadow rays, opaque reflection rays, translucent reflection rays using anyhit shaders. It is not tracing a single ray for all effects and then spawning a new ray at the moment of contact to continue onward through the glass. I do not think the renderer has a concept of "double reflection" anyway.

 

[Shortbread]

This is in fact the case. Of course the PC version and XSX versions can have translucent reflections in front of opaque ones. Otherwise, everytime you would look through glass on XSX or PC, the entire shading would disappear. This difference being seen here, is like you said, just a matter of the Playstation 5 verison for some reason offsetting the reflection completely differently than XSX or PC verisons.

One thing I think also need be said is that Control is not using a path tracer. It is sending out a variety of rays testing different things - shadow rays, opaque reflection rays, translucent reflection rays using anyhit shaders. It is not tracing a single ray for all effects and then spawning a new ray at the moment of contact to continue onward through the glass. I do not think the renderer has a concept of "double reflection" anyway.

So what is your take on the image latency going on in the reflection or not showing up at all (@3:40)?

 

[Dictator]

So whats your take on the image latency going on in the reflection or not showing up at all (@3:40)?

IDK, a bug? I did not program the game and cannot explain every difference or visual anomaly that can occur.
Here a screenshot of XSX where I offset the camera so the reflection is not dead-on 90 degree with photomode. It is possible to see the glass reflection (ultra sharp with hard silhouette) and then the opaque reflection underneath it (noisy and diffuse).

If PC or Xbox Series X did not support translucent reflections over opaque ones, then the glass or the opaque reflections behind glass would suddenly turn black more or less when they overlapped.

Here a more readily parallaxed example of Translucent reflections over opaque reflections on XSX:

Jesses legs as a sharp reflection in the glass, and then offset and behind as diffuse and noisy reflections in the metal casing of that radar dish chassis.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

performence test by NXGamer edit: Nxgamer suggesting that ps5 performance advantage during gameplay is due superior io as xsx drops are usually while data stream edit2 stutter due cpu limitation of single thread

Interesting given the game load times are basically identical. Mark Cerny did emphasise that PS5's I/O was intended to improve streaming rather than loading.

The types of tasks running when loading can be quite different when streaming when the game world is already setup and running full tilt.

 

[Shortbread]

IDK, a bug?

There are a lot of bugs going on I guess. But thanks.

 

[goonergaz]

Not sure if this is the right place, but does anyone else own (or have used frequently) both XSX and XSS?

Long story short, as I have a decent PC I decided to sell on my XSX - so I moved my XSS (which I barely touched) into the front room. Wow, the dashboard is (I'd say) at least twice the speed of the XSX. It's so much more responsive and snappy. Opening apps and booting up seems so much quicker - very odd, anyone else able to comment or have any thoughts why that might be?

Interesting given the game load times are basically identical. Mark Cerny did emphasise that PS5's I/O was intended to improve streaming rather than loading.

The types of tasks running when loading can be quite different when streaming when the game world is already setup and running full tilt.

Yes, these were my thoughts (which I have mentioned elsewhere), maybe the actual game loading is more 'controlled' whereas in game it's more on the fly (as it were)?

 

[Nisaaru]

I have problems to imagine how the PS5 bandwidth advantage avoids this frame drop problem for a game designed for freaking PC/X1/PS4 IO.

 

[Globalisateur]

It also seems RT reflections is performing slightly different on PS5 when compared to XBSX. PS5 RT has slightly less image latency during reconstruction or fast movements @3:40, and there are certain extra details not found on XBSX (such as dual reflections @4:10 found on PS5). A lot of this could be bug related or possibly the PS5 having a slight edge in RT reflection quality.



If it is due to Oodle compression, then PS5 giving up a few secs of load speed for tighter compression would be a great tradeoff for PS5's limited storage size.

It doesn't surprise me. There were also differences of RT quality in COD. The RT shadows could flicker on XSX and according to NXGamer the quality was a bit higher on PS5. NXGamer has really a very good eye at noticing those differences.

 

[zed]

that fuzziness you mistake for compression is the actual reflection from the metal surface behi d the glass. It’s not suppose to be clear like a glass reflection. That is why you see the “blurry” reflection from the metal surface. You can see to the left a bit of her face clearer with hard lines which is the glass reflection. The 2 are over lapped. The ps5 image you posted has the 2 reflections way further apart. Pc and XSX has them more closer which looks correct cause the metal surface is directly behind the glass

the reflection you see her pale skin very colorful. Then around it you see the “ghostly” image that’s the glass reflection

the blurry reflection looks bad, look at the top 3 lights reflected, you will see sharp edges! So one would assume the reflection of the face would also also be sharp
If you look at the ps5 image it has a sharp reflection of the persons face (plus theres an extra blurry face whatever thats meant to be?), the PC & xbox seem to only show the lit blurry face, so for some reason its missing the real sharl reflections.

One would assume the PC version was the most correct version, but it seems buggy, actually all 3 seem to display errors

 

[mr magoo]

So i just watched nx video and he is saying that the XSX has actually slight advantage during the gameplay? @12:15 Shame that is plagued by this cpu/io/bug drops. I am wondering in photomode is fps unlocked or capped at 60? Seems like in many cases xsx is flat 60 but never a single frame above?

 

[Globalisateur]

...

I guess the main question is, has the PS5 got something that in game boosts performance (eg IO/cache scrubbers) or is the XSX being held back due to immature dev kits (or whatever the technical term is)...I'd guess the latter, this photo mode (for me) cements the XSX potential and the paper specs show it shouldn't be any more bottle-necked than PS5 (unless I missed something).

As stated by NXGamer it's more likely a CPU bottleneck on XSX as the stuttering is also seen on PC with some CPUs (with no problems of immature tools), but not seen using others CPUs (whatever the ram, SSD or GPU used).

In my testing, Control tends stutter occasionally, even on the beefiest of PCs ... except not always. The AMD 3900X, 3700X, and 2600 all had far fewer stutters in my testing.

It's most likely caused by one thread being used to the max as hypothesized and showed by NXGamer. But I think he is wrong when he says PS5 offloads those tasks on its custom hardware I/O because otherwise we would see much better loadings times on PS5 (like <2sec loading times seen in Demon's souls or Nioh 2). Like seen in the recent Nioh 2 we would see much faster loading times on PS5 compared to XSX. Here the loadings times are basically identical proving they are all working the same, so they are not using the Kraken there and it's very likely they are not using it elsewhere.

That CPU advantage on PS5 should not come as a surprise as we have others games where the (supposedly) I/O stutters during gameplay are much less prevalent on PS5 like Cyberpunk, Jedi Fallen and even Destiny 2.

 

[goonergaz]

As stated by NXGamer it's more likely a CPU bottleneck on XSX as the stuttering is also seen on PC with some CPUs (with no problems of immature tools), but not seen using others CPUs (whatever the ram, SSD or GPU used).



It's most likely caused by one thread being used to the max as hypothesized and showed by NXGamer. But I think he is wrong when he says PS5 offloads those tasks on its custom hardware I/O because otherwise we would see much better loadings times on PS5 (like <2sec loading times seen in Demon's souls or Nioh 2). Like seen in the recent Nioh 2 we would see much faster loading times on PS5 compared to XSX. Here the loadings times are basically identical proving they are all working the same, so they are not using the Kraken there and it's very likely they are not using it elsewhere.

That CPU advantage on PS5 should not come as a surprise as we have others games where the (supposedly) I/O stutters during gameplay are much less prevalent on PS5 like Cyberpunk, Jedi Fallen and even Destiny 2.

I will watch the video, but I'm still a bit confused at the CPU because the XSX is running faster. Regards the IO could it be just be that in game vs level loading is managed in a different way? Much like why we see PS5 load times for BC are not lightning fast even though it has all that better IO performance?

 

[snc]

Like seen in the recent Nioh 2 we would see much faster loading times on PS5 compared to XSX.

what are nioh2 xsx loading times comparing to ps5 ? (I've seen in df video that on ps5 is little above 1s )

 

[Globalisateur]

I will watch the video, but I'm still a bit confused at the CPU because the XSX is running faster. Regards the IO could it be just be that in game vs level loading is managed in a different way? Much like why we see PS5 load times for BC are not lightning fast even though it has all that better IO performance?

Such a small difference of clocks (3.66ghz vs 3.5ghz) is negligible. Most importantly Sony have designed the PS5 with one focus in mind: low latencies for high framerates for notably VR gaming (60fps and 120fps). We'll know more about it when we'll have an API die shot but some have hypothetized the PS5 CPU has a unified L3 cache. We also have a former PS5 software engineer who was strongly implying the same thing.

Red gaming Tech claims he has sources who told him about the unified L3 cache. He previously leaked the Infinite cache on RDNA2 GPUs. A CPU with 1 CCX (PS5) vs 2CCX (on XSX) would easily explain the advantage on PS5 in some scenes (I/O streaming limited by CPU and 120hz modes). Finally PS5 uses different (and better) GDDR6 chips, maybe with lower latencies.

what are nioh2 loading times comparing to ps5 ? (I've seen in df video that on ps5 is little above 1s )

PS5 BC with internal SSD vs PS5 native with internal SSD (the latter are 10x faster).