Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Deleted member 11852]

xbox version contains all versions. PS5 Version just the PS5 version. Control does not use the "package manager" of microsoft to only load what is needed for the console.

So Microsoft spend effort developing Smart Delivery only for Remedy to decide to develop their own Dumb Delivery solution.

Good job, Remedy.

 

[Shortbread]

So Microsoft spend effort developing Smart Delivery only for Remedy to decide to develop their own Dumb Delivery solution.

Good job, Remedy.

Yeah, something about that doesn't sound right. Why would Remedy waste SSD space (housing other Xbox editions) on XBSX for a supposed Ultimate Edition that was only meant for the next-generation systems to begin with? Something about that doesn't make any sense...

 

[Allandor]

So Microsoft spend effort developing Smart Delivery only for Remedy to decide to develop their own Dumb Delivery solution.

Good job, Remedy.

Why should they. It is just some extra time, to save a few GiBs. It makes it much easier for them just to deliver one version for all Systems (somehow just like the PC version). But in case of the PS5, they had to make a native PS5 game to get RT work. As easy as that. They had to create a separate "container" for that game, so everything that wasn't needed in there would not get in there. And the build piplines can just optimize everything for the PS5.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Why should they. It is just some extra time, to save a few GiBs. It makes it much easier for them just to deliver one version for all Systems (somehow just like the PC version). But in case of the PS5, they had to make a native PS5 game to get RT work. As easy as that.

But kinda of shitty given how precious SSD storage is on consoles, particular Series S.

 

[Globalisateur]

Ok, again
PS4 Version -> old version (+Pro), with many big packets.
PS5 Version -> just the PS5 Version. Textures and other assets etc are just in the package that are used for that version. This only runs on PS5 and not PS4 Systems. Maybe it even uses the compression hardware of the PS5 as native PS5 game it can do such things.
Xbox Version -> Contains the xbox one, X and Series X Version. Packet as a normal xbox one would use it, just other code-paths implemented to distinguish between the versions. A real next-gen only version would have been broken up into smaller parts, that just contain what is needed. They could have gone the way to put out different versions for each console, but they went the way to pack everything into one version.
Btw, the PC Version of control, which also includes everything is about 50GB in size.

Kraken texture compression might be a bit better, but it is not that much better. At best maybe 10% on large data. This can be much, but it is not 50%.
And before you begin with oddle textures, that works in all current-/last-gen systems.

There is not really a "pro version". The "pro version" is just a flag in order to enable the higher res. Compared to PS4 version the PS5 size can only be explained by a better compression. And don't forget the PS5 has actually the PS4 data with old reflections + RT reflection data.

The good news is that all console versions of Control essentially deliver the exact same visual feature set, the only real exception we could find being an adjustment to the shadow rendering solution on the base Xbox One...The vanilla PlayStation 4 gets a bump to 900p, rising to 1080p on PlayStation 4 Pro

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-control-console-face-off

 

[Shortbread]

Why should they. It is just some extra time, to save a few GiBs. It makes it much easier for them just to deliver one version for all Systems (somehow just like the PC version). But in case of the PS5, they had to make a native PS5 game to get RT work. As easy as that. They had to create a separate "container" for that game, so everything that wasn't needed in there would not get in there. And the build piplines can just optimize everything for the PS5.

Do you have any proof or other games that have used this method on XBSX? Microsoft Smart Delivery would have been a better choice in this matter (if this is the case).

 

[thicc_gaf]

Probably because of Kraken compression or oodle textures used on PS5, or both.

The source was a Reddit post and the source was deleted. So the only thing actually known are the sizes of the installs. I'm curious about that as well; chances are it might be due to the Oodle Kraken compression format. BCPack may or may not be getting used on the Series side (since DirectStorage isn't out on PC yet there's a chance it wasn't used), but even then it's specifically for texture-related data.

Smaller file install sizes is going to be one of the stealth benefits of the Sony/Microsoft platforms.

Ok, again
PS4 Version -> old version (+Pro), with many big packets.
PS5 Version -> just the PS5 Version. Textures and other assets etc are just in the package that are used for that version. This only runs on PS5 and not PS4 Systems. Maybe it even uses the compression hardware of the PS5 as native PS5 game it can do such things.
Xbox Version -> Contains the xbox one, X and Series X Version. Packet as a normal xbox one would use it, just other code-paths implemented to distinguish between the versions. A real next-gen only version would have been broken up into smaller parts, that just contain what is needed. They could have gone the way to put out different versions for each console, but they went the way to pack everything into one version.
Btw, the PC Version of control, which also includes everything is about 50GB in size.

Kraken texture compression might be a bit better, but it is not that much better. At best maybe 10% on large data. This can be much, but it is not 50%.
And before you begin with oddle textures, that works in all current-/last-gen systems.

This might actually clarify why the install sizes are different. Hadn't considered it.

Wish these devs would anticipate these sort of questions from the community ahead of time and explain why certain differences are the way they are (if doing so doesn't violate any agreements with platform holders), but I guess they figure the sort of folks pontificating on this specific stuff are sadly in the minority among gamers as a whole.

 

[snc]

Interesting that he considers this the best RT on consoles. Better than Watch Dogs? Or Spiderman? I've not played control, or for that matter any RT game so I can't comment too much.

maybe the best from technical point of view but from just visual perspective not even close to Miles

 

[Deleted member 86764]

On Control there's a weird shadowing or effect occlusion behind the character on both graphics modes

Comparing the native 1440p image between this and Miles Morales is no contest. Morales appears significantly cleaner and "higher res" even though the render resolutions are the same.

I wish there was another lower res option that allowed for both 60hz and RT. I keep switching back and fourth between them. Aiming is very difficult at 30hz with no autoaim, but works perfectly well at 60hz.

I *adore* the story, I'm interested in esoteric and anomalous experiences, so this is utterly perfect for me. Only just started and already have Jung mentioned by name and Vallée implied in collectables. I couldn't have got a better synchronicity. I'm instantly hooked.

Edit: and Skinwalker ("Sherman Ranch"). Wow.

 

[PSman1700]

Control might be the best RT for consoles yet but its performance suffers more also.

 

[Globalisateur]

On Control there's a weird shadowing or effect occlusion behind the character on both graphics modes

Comparing the native 1440p image between this and Miles Morales is no contest. Morales appears significantly cleaner and "higher res" even though the render resolutions are the same.

I wish there was another lower res option that allowed for both 60hz and RT. I keep switching back and fourth between them. Aiming is very difficult at 30hz with no autoaim, but works perfectly well at 60hz.

I *adore* the story, I'm interested in esoteric and anomalous experiences, so this is utterly perfect for me. Only just started and already have Jung mentioned by name and Vallée implied in collectables. I couldn't have got a better synchronicity. I'm instantly hooked.

Edit: and Skinwalker ("Sherman Ranch"). Wow.

Watching some videos I am surprised how noticeable and off-putting some of those graphical problems (in both modes) are.

But I am quite impressed by the physics engine of this game particularly at 60fps. Now this looks next-gen!

 

[milk]

Is that actually true in practice? I know with classic ray-tracing algorithms that shadows only need to utilize an 'any hit' check, whereas reflections need a 'nearest hit' (not to mention the further recursion thereafter).

Good point. Any hit probably makes RT faster.

 

[snc]

On Control there's a weird shadowing or effect occlusion behind the character on both graphics modes

Comparing the native 1440p image between this and Miles Morales is no contest. Morales appears significantly cleaner and "higher res" even though the render resolutions are the same.

I wish there was another lower res option that allowed for both 60hz and RT. I keep switching back and fourth between them. Aiming is very difficult at 30hz with no autoaim, but works perfectly well at 60hz.

I *adore* the story, I'm interested in esoteric and anomalous experiences, so this is utterly perfect for me. Only just started and already have Jung mentioned by name and Vallée implied in collectables. I couldn't have got a better synchronicity. I'm instantly hooked.

Edit: and Skinwalker ("Sherman Ranch"). Wow.

Yeah, played about hour on ps5, quite disapointed with presentation of this game, reflections are noisy (with or without rt), artefacts on hair, character models not best and rather stiff, whole building environment plain and dull. Also I think reflectivity in rt mode of surfsces is rather exagerated, doesnt look natural. Physics is definitly stronger side and good to see back to it couse ps4/xone gen was regression in physics aspect generaly

 

[Shortbread]

- The game runs in backward compatibility mode. In PS5 it presents some graphical problems.
- The resolution in Series S is 1080p, in Series X 2160p and in PS5 1944p (the maximum that PS4 Pro reached).
- Significantly better loading times on Xbox.
- Series S presents some problems with the loading of some textures.
- Reflections, fog, anisotropic filtering and draw distance are worse on PS5. Considering that PS4 did not have these problems, it is more likely that it was a bug in the patch.

- Shadows have the same quality in all versions.
- Water effects are not well represented in some areas on Series X and PS5. S series works normally.
- Regarding the framerate, the Xbox versions have some minimal drop and PS5 remains constant at 60FPS (probably due to the difference in resolution).
- As soon as another patch comes out, I'll keep you posted in case there are any changes to the PS5 version.

 

[Nesh]

loading times on PS5....MS seems to rip better results in loading times evenb though Sony invested on more expensive and on paper better solution

 

[Shortbread]

- Same textured in all versions.
- Series S uses Ray-Tracing in lighting and shading, but I have not seen evidence of RT in reflections.
- The PC version features a higher Ray-Tracing. Some reflections (such as cabinets) do not appear to use console ray-tracing. This seems like yet another example of Nvidia's advantage with this technology.
- Some shades are inferior in Series S compared to Series X. In PC they are of higher quality.
- The drops of fps that suffered in the camera changes have been fixed. However, the game still has some frame-pacing and some crashes when using the split screen.
- Bloober Team has done a great job with this game on an artistic level.

He/she must have meant Series X, not S (S has no RT support). And there is no RT lighting and/or shadowing support on either platforms (just RT reflections for X and the PC).

Oddly enough, he/she did not find any evidence of RT reflections, yet, that was the only form of RT which DF found on XBSX and PC.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...deeper-look-at-xboxs-first-next-gen-only-game

In terms of the ray tracing support, The Medium features RT reflections - but only in certain locations and only on Xbox Series X and PC - with Series S dropping back to more conventional screen-space reflections. They do the job, but simply cannot reproduce detail that isn't present in the current camera view, so detail can to vanish in some scenarios. There are other differences between Xboxes as well: shadows, for instance, are rendered at a lower resolution on Series S. All shadows in The Medium are traditional rasterized shadows, it should be noted, rather than ray traced shadows - with the exception of shadows visible within a ray traced reflection.

- The PS4 Pro version corresponds to Movie mode. Settings on PC are maxed out using an RTX 2080 Ti.
- The framerate in 120FPS mode I could not check. I'm working on it to be able to give you measurements at this frame rate.
- The PC version seems to have been released with limited settings. I guess it won't take long to optimize it.
- 4K mode runs at a native resolution of 2160p.
- Standard mode runs at dynamic 2160p with Checkerboard, (Your resolution is probably 1440p ~ 1800p).
- In 120FPS mode, the game runs at a dynamic resolution of 792p ~ 1080p, but I don't rule out that the minimum resolution is even lower.

- Shadows are slightly higher on PS5 in Standard and 4K modes, however, in 120FPS mode their quality is quite low.
- Anisotropic filtering is superior on the PC version.
- The draw distance is better on PS5, especially in Standard mode. The pop-in of certain elements is noticeable in the rest of the versions.
- Some textures appear slightly superior on PC, but generally maintain a similar level between PS5 and PC.
- 120FPS mode lowers the quality of textures.
- Load times now last less than 3 seconds on PS5. On PS4 it's more than 10 seconds.

 

[goonergaz]

loading times on PS5....MS seems to rip better results in loading times evenb though Sony invested on more expensive and on paper better solution

TBH it seems the PS5 version is bugged or broken or they just didn't bother.

 

[turkey]

TBH it seems the PS5 version is bugged or broken or they just didn't bother.

Or the time is actually cpu related or something and not a measure of the SSD?

 

[chris1515]

Or the time is actually cpu related or something and not a measure of the SSD?

If the PS5 version is optimised CPU has no involvment at all in I/O. This is probably a non optimized title. The loading time are a bit long for an optimised title. Spiderman MM or Ni Oh 2 load in less than two seconds. And Spiderman MM load as fast as Control from os menu to game during this time, the game is setting all the game engine using some CPU power- There is a bit of CPU setup of a level when loading a save but the game engine is already setup.

 

[RagnarokFF]

The Division is a BC game.