Console Exclusives: Significance and Impact *spinoff*

Bet it does not end the discussion on the value of exclusives ;)
It can't if you want a meaningful discussion and aren't just trumpet blowing. Has it had an effect? Yes. Is that the best way to invest the money? What if instead of making GOW, Sony had a $100 discount on PS4 this month? Would have sold more units at a cheaper cost than producing GOW? Probably. Certainly discussable.
 
It can't if you want a meaningful discussion and aren't just trumpet blowing. Has it had an effect? Yes. Is that the best way to invest the money? What if instead of making GOW, Sony had a $100 discount on PS4 this month? Would have sold more units at a cheaper cost than producing GOW? Probably. Certainly discussable.
Yes but how many people over the lifetime have bought PS4 over the competition because of the promise of exclusives like God Of War?
 
An amount. I wasn't arguing it wasn't important. I was pointing out the conversation doesn't end with one month of higher HW sales on account of one game. The real cost<>reward consideration is very complex. The cost of every first party investment needs to be factored in to the rewards of the few that are notably successful. That is, the cost for getting this month of YoY April NPD sales includes the costs not only of producing GoW, but of running all the first party studios and releasing lossy games such as RIGS and Bravo Team and Tearaway Unfolded. And given that investment, the question is whether that's the best place to invest the money or could/should it be invested elsewhere? What if instead of spending on games, you spent on hardware? Or services that give games away free/cheap? Would these get more sales than the library of exclusives?

I've already discussed at length my regard for the value of exclusives. I just want to make it clear that the simple "Yes/No" answers some are wanting are just unintelligent. The question is of 'how much?' and not just 'is?'
 
Yes but how many people over the lifetime have bought PS4 over the competition because of the promise of exclusives like God Of War?

Nobody knows the answer. This is why this topic never dies. It's theories supported by anecdotes, disputed by other's theories supported by their anecdotes.
 
I believe strongly that the biggest differentiator going forward will be exclusive software. The hardware is going to be to similar. I think also that Sony keeps investing in them for a reason. Having a lot of experienced first party devs can only be a good thing going forward. I mean Sony could of dropped Guerrilla, I don't think Killzone set the world alight sales wise but with the experience they gained they now have a franchise that probably will be a 10 million mover in the future. Uncharted 1 also didn't do to fantastically. Tried and tested devs is a boon.
 
Agreed. Which is why the closure of Evolution bothered me. Their network code was reportedly dog shit, but it looked stunning, and I struggle to believe that couldn't have been a solid foundation for a future title. Just look at the improvement from Motorstorm to Pacific Rift!
 
An amount.
An amount that is partially or mostly responsible for making consumers buy 2x PS4 for each Xbone, despite Sony's console being more expensive, their monthly subscription bringing lower value, not investing in backwards compatibility and not bringing UHD Blu-Ray drives in any SKU.

During the previous generation both consoles sold ~84Million units, it was a 50/50 distribution. Right now we're on ~70/30 with ~80 Million PS4 vs. ~30 Million XBone.
80 - 30 = 50;
50/2 = 25;

This puts the current Xbox -> Playstation migration numbers at around 25 Million.
Now a portion of these could be due to Xbone's terrible launch, others due to the XBone not being sold in all markets at launch, others because the base PS4 has higher specs and the multiplatforms generally run better and others because the Xbone's initial price was higher.

But throughout 2017 and 2018, I'll bet the great majority of the aforementioned migration is coming due to exclusives.
Right now, no one cares about the 2013 XBone launch and the XboneX is now the better performing console.
 
I believe strongly that the biggest differentiator going forward will be exclusive software. The hardware is going to be to similar. I think also that Sony keeps investing in them for a reason. Having a lot of experienced first party devs can only be a good thing going forward. I mean Sony could of dropped Guerrilla, I don't think Killzone set the world alight sales wise but with the experience they gained they now have a franchise that probably will be a 10 million mover in the future. Uncharted 1 also didn't do to fantastically. Tried and tested devs is a boon.
Sounds very true, and yet Sony keeps closing down old studios and sprouting new ones. So it's not a policy at Sony to keep devs on and nurture them particularly. We don't really know what their decision making process is, but it's not "Let's keep these studios going so they get better and better and produce amazing hits."
 
Maybe, but it could also just be brand momentum.
Including everything he said, this was one factor I wanted to add to it as well.
Momentum is like acceleration.
It's more than just an increase linear velocity, it's exponential increase in velocity.

PS4 hit that critical mass early and became the default console for the world.
 
Sounds very true, and yet Sony keeps closing down old studios and sprouting new ones. So it's not a policy at Sony to keep devs on and nurture them particularly. We don't really know what their decision making process is, but it's not "Let's keep these studios going so they get better and better and produce amazing hits."

Most of the studios closure of Sony were doing racing games now a declining niche(Evolutions studios, Studio Liverpool...) and multiplayer games better served by third party(franchise like SOCOM, Warhawk or RIGS...)...

Sony studios are doing single player story based wide linear or open world games. Only third person shooter like ND games add a mulitplayer component...

Nobody knows the answer. This is why this topic never dies. It's theories supported by anecdotes, disputed by other's theories supported by their anecdotes.

Mot only anecdotes but sales too... Horizon will probably finish not far from 10 millions sales and Uncharted 4 probably is a 10+ millions now(8,7 millions 22th december 2016...)... God of War will probably be a 10+ millions too...

The data we miss is not multiplatform sales but PS4 sales of multiplatform games to have a viable comparison for the sucess of exclusives.
 
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Most of the studios closure of Sony were doing racing games now a declining niche(Evolutions studios, Studio Liverpool...) and multiplayer games better served by third party(franchise like SOCOM, Warhawk or RIGS...)...

Sony studios are doing single player story based wide linear or open world games. Only third person shooter like ND games add a mulitplayer component...
That might be true, but you're looking at a very short period. In terms of games released, HZD is one game after years of other things. Who's to say Guerilla will continue along these lines? Is that a mandate from Sony, "thou shall't only make single player cinematic games?" It's already bee n raised multiple times in this thread that there's a lot more to Sony exclusives than that.

Your argument seems to be that only large, single player games count as exclusives, and Sony is knuckling down on those and eschewing the rest. I don't think it's proven that's the direction Sony is headed, nor that it's the way they should go. Previous PS's sold gang-busters because of the library diversity and something-for-everyone. 10 million selling GOW and HZD may sound awesome, but if you're selling to the same buyers, that's only one eighth of the audience that cares for those games and the rest want something else. If Sony are going to focus on exclusives, they probably need to stick with diversity. It'll be interesting to see if in ten years, the only things coming out of Sony's stables is wide-linear single player story games as you are suggesting.
 
That might be true, but you're looking at a very short period. In terms of games released, HZD is one game after years of other things. Who's to say Guerilla will continue along these lines? Is that a mandate from Sony, "thou shall't only make single player cinematic games?" It's already bee n raised multiple times in this thread that there's a lot more to Sony exclusives than that.

Your argument seems to be that only large, single player games count as exclusives, and Sony is knuckling down on those and eschewing the rest. I don't think it's proven that's the direction Sony is headed, nor that it's the way they should go. Previous PS's sold gang-busters because of the library diversity and something-for-everyone. 10 million selling GOW and HZD may sound awesome, but if you're selling to the same buyers, that's only one eighth of the audience that cares for those games and the rest want something else. If Sony are going to focus on exclusives, they probably need to stick with diversity. It'll be interesting to see if in ten years, the only things coming out of Sony's stables is wide-linear single player story games as you are suggesting.

The diversity is existing mostly from game coming from Housemarque, Quantic Dreams, Media Molecule, VR games internal or external, Japan Studio, japanese third party exclusives.

They know long tail is important and they have the advantage to be a global brand with Playstation not an anglo saxon one like Xbox.

I never said than diversity is not important but big exclusives are important too and sold 10 to 15 millions for a title is very good too and they not only sold to the same people for example HZD sold probably to more woman playing games than God of War because they can identify with the heroin. And God of War sold better than other exclusive in US. It is not the same 10 millions everytime.

Playstation is God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn or The Last Guardian, Resogun, Alien Nation, Helldiver, Singstar, Hidden Agenda, The impatient, Dragon Crown, Detroit become Human, Death Stranding, TLOU, Dreams, Shadow of the Colossus Remake, Gravity Rush, Bloodborne, Ghost of Tsuhima, Infamous, Ratchet and Clank, Spiderman etc.

From third party, Nier Automata, Yakuza, Ni No Kuni 2, Persona 5 etc.

It is not like Sony miss diversity and they do the things right they are on the road to sold more than 100 millions home console for the third time, never done by Microsoft or Sega and only one time by Nintendo.

Edit: Out of God of War, Uncharted, TLOU, Gran Turismo(not the case now), Little Big Planet and now Horizon Zero Dawn no Sony games were massive but they continue to work with the same studios if they fit inside first party strategy. And it is impressive for AAA studios because the cost is huge not like AA title.

They close everything linked to racing game out of Polyphony because not enough sales and same things for multiplayer games or online oriented game better served by 3rd party with Destiny, Fortnite, Overwatch, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, The Division, Ghos Recon Wildlands, Rainbow Six Siege etc. And it is a better strategy using third party marketing and the 3rd party are probably happy to work with a platform holder not trying to make the same type of title.

Edit2: But exclusives and 3rd party games are only a part of the success of Playstation for example last generation Xbox gains a little ground in continental Europe because Sony sold a too expensive product and too late. But Xbox lost all the ground Sony launching a product at the right time and price. In continental Europe the biggest advantage of Playstation is Brand not games but it is another advantage for the core gamer the more sensible to game quality.
 
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Sony closed studios like evolution because they were burning through cash and they did give them many chances, very unlucky Motorstorm Armegedon came out after the disaster in Japan but they really bungled Driveclub. The idea was fantastic even ahead of it's time but they stuffed there netcode up it took them forever to get the multiplayer and social aspect up and running.

Zipper interactives closure was sad but there last couple of games bombed hard and Call of Duty and Battlefield was and is to a degree burning all the oxygen in that genre. I feel Zipper might of been able to deliver a really good battle royal game now though.

Sony is privy to the the management and the ability to stick to budget these studios have,it is a business.
 
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The diversity is existing mostly from game coming from Housemarque, Quantic Dreams, Media Molecule, VR games internal or external, Japan Studio, japanese third party exclusives...
Your post isn't following the current line of discussion that I entered into with XBat. XBat said Sony doesn't close its studio, citing Guerilla, allowing these studios to become seasoned. I point out Sony do close studios. You raised that studios closed weren't producing big single player games, as if that's the reason to keep a studio open. Very importantly, the 'big single player game' focus is incredibly recent, that last few games from long histories of releases mostly, so no patterns can be drawn from this about Sony's strategy or intentions.

The returns on Sony's first party investment should be looked at as the bigger picture, and not just the current high of the last couple of years.

(As a mod, please just using a single period to end a sentence rather than an ellipsis. They make you hard to read, as if the real point is hinted at in the line and you have to work it out for yourself.)
 
Your post isn't following the current line of discussion that I entered into with XBat. XBat said Sony doesn't close its studio, citing Guerilla, allowing these studios to become seasoned. I point out Sony do close studios. You raised that studios closed weren't producing big single player games, as if that's the reason to keep a studio open. Very importantly, the 'big single player game' focus is incredibly recent, that last few games from long histories of releases mostly, so no patterns can be drawn from this about Sony's strategy or intentions.

The returns on Sony's first party investment should be looked at as the bigger picture, and not just the current high of the last couple of years.

(As a mod, please just using a single period to end a sentence rather than an ellipsis. They make you hard to read, as if the real point is hinted at in the line and you have to work it out for yourself.)

It is on my post I speak about first party strategy if a studio fit inside the strategy and have an interesting ROI they keep it open. Maybe in the future the strategy use now will not be viable because single player story sales games will decrease and studios will need to pivot or die. They close Evolution studios because the ROI of racing games is not high enough now, it is a genre in decline I never said something else. And the ROI of multiplayer games was probably not good and it is better to have 3rd party doing the job they will receive the 30% royalty and it sill help the platform thrives.
 
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Platform holders are in a position to make games third parties cannot because those games can be loss leaders. Sony and Nintendo don't have to chase trends like Loot boxes, Battle Royal, Open World, Always Online, In-game cash shops, etc, etc, so on and so forth because keeping the platform healthy is the main goal. And these game don't necessarily have to sell multi millions of copies to be worth it to the platform holder, since things like critic recognition and filling out niches all help bring people in. Nintendo and Sony know this and have been doing for generations of consoles now. Having a large variety of titles exclusive to your platform is a very very good thing from differentiating a platform from competitors, especially in the age of commodity hardware.
 
Platform holders are in a position to make games third parties cannot because those games can be loss leaders.
They can be, but too many sees a studio closed. You have to weigh up long-term benefits from the diversity a poorly selling title brings versus the cost of operating it.
Sony and Nintendo don't have to chase trends like Loot boxes, Battle Royal, Open World, Always Online, In-game cash shops, etc, etc, so on and so forth because keeping the platform healthy is the main goal.
You do know how Uncharted came into being, right? Chasing a trend. Here's some Uncharted Lootboxes for yer too


Nintendo laying on the Loot Boxes too.

I'm pretty sure if Sony had a choice between HZD or Fortnite, they'd have picked Fortnite. As a games publisher looking to make money from games, they'll face the same choices as any other. They just have a little extra value that can be factored into a game in terms of platform diversity that improves platform sales, which other pubs don't have, but they can't sink countless dollars into exclusives either without measurable returns and it being a wise investment.
 
Thats why I said "they don't have to", Not that they wont. Games as a service is far more lucrative to 3rd parties because they essentially create their own platforms of constant revenue which the games sit upon without actually owning the hardware platform. Yves Guillemot said as much in that it lowers risk for UBI and relaxes release schedules. My post wasn't an Indictment of any form of monetization because thats not my place to judge how a publisher runs a business. It was just to point out the differences in incentive first and third parties have when developing games.
 
Your post isn't following the current line of discussion that I entered into with XBat. XBat said Sony doesn't close its studio, citing Guerilla, allowing these studios to become seasoned

I don't think I said Sony doesn't close studios, what I was trying to say is Sony gives studios a chance to mature. Obviously if a studio burns through cash or struggles to meet deadlines they might get closed. Sony does usually give devs more than one chance. Look at Sucker Punch I don't think any of there games has set the world alight but they release reasonably well rated games in a good time. Lots of publishers might of shut them down because they haven't reached insane sale targets but Sony hasn't. Hopefully there new game Ghost of Tsushima will hit it big.
 
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