Prioritizing game exclusivity on console - as a hypothetical Xbox strategy

[Sonic]

Haven´t thought about that, but the people I know who have no plans of getting an Xbox either have good a PC or have stated theres no reason to get one if they have a PC which also is more powerful. So I suppose "PC = not xbox exclusive".
The big xbox games seem to be different kinds of games as well. They dont seem to have much in AAA story driven action adventure games like sony excel at. Flight simulator is a very different kind of game. Many people who like Bethesda would probably like Starfield I suppose, when comparing their big titles like Starfield, Halo infinite and Redfall they look like a generation or more behind stuff like Spiderman, Horizon or God of War. The only xbox title I can think of which looks as good is Forza Horizon. I agree, MS should be able produce much better software, and I dont think its helping them not keeping things exclusive.

I dont remember fables women looking that much like dudes. If I had the seen that trailer in a vacum I probably wouldnt have seen it as political activism, I would probably just thought it was weird that she made her so ugly. But in this day and age Im leaning towards "if it looks like a duck."

She doesn't look like a man to me. She might be a butter face, to me at least, but doesn't look like a man. And looking at her credits she's quite talented so makes sense that a game studio would hire her.

 

[ZebMacahan]

And my critique wasn't that it only affected years prior, insinuating a trailer with a less than stereotypical female lead for a game not to be released yet (and hasn't been relevant in decades) has any relevance on the success of failure of the Series line here and now is also 'silly' in and of itself.

The Halo series could be a huge hit, and the Fable trailer could have been completely different, and it would maybe make fractions of a percentage difference for Series consoles sales, because the fundamental issues still remain and a big part of that was massively fumbling the bag during the Xbox one era at a critical time when ecosystem lock-in started to really become a thing. Attributing some nebulous 'political activism' to a trillion-dollar corporation is ridiculous, their main goal is to make a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be in the position they're in.

Nobody is debating they have a 'disconnect' with gamers, that was precisely the problem with the Xbox one launch. That disconnect is not due to some nebulous skunkworks project of forced inclusivity or whatever within MS that's destroying the fundamentals of their business, their literal problem during the XBox one era was being detached corporate automatons out of touch with modern gamers and not prioritizing the creative side of the industry.



Woman not otherworldly hot = wokeism, basically - at least how it played our online from what I remember when it hit amongst a certain class of gamers.

Here´s the quote: "Xbox has not failed to turn a profit in 22 years because of a trailer with an unattractive female lead for pete's sake."

My point isnt that a failed Halo series or a trailer in 2023 is the cause of Xbox not doing better, I mentioned these things as symptoms of bad leadership. I do however belive that treating Halo they way they do is a misstake which isnt helping them.

*I agree, MS messed up big time with xbox one. They were in a good position and squandered it with kinect and TV TV.

*They havent been able to produce any exclusives this generation worth getting the system for. I belive a big reason for this is bad management. Halo infinite, forza, etc should be better games.

Im a bit baffled that you claim wokeism in companies and media is some nebulous imaginary thing. There are numerous examples from companies themselves.
*We have the newly surfaced disney guidelines. Or you can just look at the stuff disney is putting out, its pretty hard to miss.
*The infamous gilette comercial or the buzz light campaign.
*Im pretty sure there was a tweat from one of the writers of rouge one along the lines of it being about "a diverse group of people fighting the evil white men empire" or something along those lines? Im not sure about this one, but I think it was somethiong like that.
*I think one of the DICE heads said something about their WW1 game with the women with the robotic arm on the cover was indeed about political activism.
*Trying to make the spanish language neutral in Spiderman 2
*I have heard from people I know who work in the games industry that this stuff is pretty common
etc etc

I mean, when the companies themselves says it it doesnt make sense to write it off as some imaginary thing in "among a certain class of gamers".

 

[Flappy Pannus]

<snip>

"Political activism"



This thread is about the Xbox business, the contention was that this supposed 'political activism' (which you of course, would never engage in, as you float above mere mortals as a perfectly non-political entity) actually materially impacted Xbox's financials. In response you've basically listed every manufactured conservative Twitter/Joe Rogan outrage from the past decade that these corporations (extremely successful corporations and products, I might add) - have apparently forced upon the unsuspecting populace. How is this relevant to the topic at hand? You're just listing your petty grievances with half-remembered ad campaigns ("buzz light") from corporations doing what they always do - trying to expand their market.

This isn't NeoGaf kiddo, or even threads here about a specific game where critique about story/presentation would be relevant - lord knows I have my qualms with Spiderman's cloying themes at points for example, and have said as much (to you, specifically) in the Games forum. This thread is about what MS had done wrong wrt the Xbox business and how it can manage things going forward, and if you're actually going to imply a trailer with what you deem an unattractive female lead (or, in your case implying they're actually a male, jfc) has had any impact whatsoever on the reception of Xbox as a brand to the point where it has materially impacted their financials, that idea is going to be treated with the respect it deserves - which is none. It's utterly laughable, and replying with this boilerplate 'Go Woke/Go Broke' hysteria just reveals that the call from the political activism center may indeed be coming from your own house.

You also seem to make alot of assumption about me and my views, you shouldnt do that since you dont know me or much about my views except the fact that I dont like wokeism in media.

My dude, simply saying the phrase 'wokeism in media' reveals plenty. I mean, you were upset in Spiderman2 that they had Jonah hocking supplements, as you felt that was 'political' because it was potentially alluding to Joe Rogan. Let's get real here. I know where these talking points come from.

I dont eat meat, but i still found that scene in the last jedi when they release the race animals cringy. When I watch star wars I want espapism and space adventure, not preaching , regardless if I agree with the message.

Get politics out of my space opera where a band of revolutionaries fight against an oppressive empire!

 

[ZebMacahan]

My dude, it seems like you might be caught up in this whole "woke vs anti-woke" manufactured, Pavlov's Dog-esque maelstrom of reactionary posturing.

It's a face scan and performance capture of an actual real woman. An attractive one IMHO. And she's a theatre actress - the kind of person you'd hire to do this.

The face proportions, eye brows and even the individual freckles are exact. This is a real woman.

The human race is in trouble is this woman's actual real face is perceived as "political activism" and to be intended to "look like a dude".



Fable isn't and never has been supposed to look like a pro-photoshoot of models that you're supposed to chuff your meat chap over. It's a world of dirt and black humour.

Comparing the actress and the 3d model they have done something to her. Look at the end of the trailer when shes eating a sunset in the sunset, it looks like a dude.
I concede the trailer was less bad than I remember though, and maybe Im reading to much into this particular example. In this day and age its pretty hard not to. You agree it looks more like a dude when shes eating the sandwich?

As I wrote to Flappy Pannus there are numerous examples of wokeism in companies and media, so I dont know what you mean by "manufactured"?

 

[ZebMacahan]

"Political activism"

View attachment 10803

This isn't NeoGaf or r/JordanPeterson kiddo.

Ok, calm down. No need to start name calling because you dont agree with me.

"Attributing some nebulous 'political activism' to a trillion-dollar corporation is ridiculous, their main goal is to make a profit, otherwise they wouldn't be in the position they're in."

You seem to be making a claim wokeism doesnt exist in companies. A company could be big and still have people in them with certain political views who use their influence to spread those ideas. My guess there is more room for people like that in big companies.

Anyone with half a brain could have told Gilette and Buzz Light their campaigns would not be good for buisness.

Would you call Insomniac trying to change the spanish language to a gender neutral one is political activism?

What would you call the newly surfaced disney guidlines? Are hiring people based on skin color political?

You might agree with these policies, I dont know, but that doenst make them less political.

You also seem to make alot of assumption about me and my views, you shouldnt do that since you dont know me or much about my views except the fact that I dont like wokeism in media. I dont eat meat, but i still found that scene in the last jedi when they release the race animals cringy. When I watch star wars I want espapism and space adventure, not preaching , regardless if I agree with the message.

 

[ZebMacahan]

"Political activism"

View attachment 10803

This thread is about the Xbox business, the contention was that this supposed 'political activism' (which you of course, would never engage in, as you float above mere mortals as a perfectly non-political entity) actually materially impacted Xbox's financials. In response you've basically listed every manufactured conservative Twitter/Joe Rogan outrage from the past decade that these corporations (extremely successful corporations and products, I might add) - have apparently forced upon the unsuspecting populace. How is this relevant to the topic at hand? You're just listing your petty grievances with half-remembered ad campaigns ("buzz light") from corporations doing what they always do - trying to expand their market.

This isn't NeoGaf kiddo, or even threads here about a specific game where critique about story/presentation would be relevant - lord knows I have my qualms with Spiderman's cloying themes at points for example, and have said as much in the Games forum. This thread is about what MS had done wrong wrt the Xbox business and how it can manage things going forward, and if you're actually going to imply a trailer with what you deem an unattractive female lead (or, in your case implying they're actually a male, jfc) has had any impact whatsoever on the reception of Xbox as a brand to the point where it has materially impacted their financials, that idea is going to be treated with the respect it deserves - which is none. It's utterly laughable, and replying with this boilerplate 'Go Woke/Go Broke' hysteria just reveals that the call from the political activism center may indeed be coming from your own house.

Seriously, calm down. You´re getting pretty rude.
Posting an angry rant with ad hominems and a mirror for me to look at?

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Seriously, calm down. You´re getting pretty rude.
Posting an angry rant with ad hominems and a mirror for me to look at?

You can edit posts, no need to respond twice to the same one! Just fyi. Also, saying you are in fact, engaging in political activism (that's what that mirror means) isn't an ad hominem. Every human being is political.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

MOD: This is not the RPSC forum

You can leave arguments at your observations - "I think MS have shifted priorities" - without going on to debate 'wokeism in gaming'. Basically, agree to disagree and leave it here, or take the discussion to a different thread outside of the gaming forum to where discussing the look of characters in a trailer and the possible politics behind those decisions is appropriate content.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I prefer characters in games not to be ugly generally speaking. Just a personal preference, I guess.

To get back on topic. I hope MS does what I've been advocating for awhile now: Put several games on delayed release on PS5/Switch, but free on GamePass. Some like COD can release at the same time even.

Have Sony gamers pay for Xbox gamers GP game development.

Message: Play Indiana Jones on Day 1 on Xbox for free on GP, or wait 3 months and pay $70 on PS5. Every Xbox user I know would be happy with that arrangement.

Also:"We'd love to give you PS users the same deal, but Sony won't let us put GP on PS"

After it happens 5 times, a PS user might actually want a new Xbox w/GP in 2026.

The games have to be great for it to work though.

 

[B-Nice]

I prefer characters in games not to be ugly generally speaking. Just a personal preference, I guess.

To get back on topic. I hope MS does what I've been advocating for awhile now: Put several games on delayed release on PS5/Switch, but free on GamePass. Some like COD can release at the same time even.

Have Sony gamers pay for Xbox gamers GP game development.

Message: Play Indiana Jones on Day 1 on Xbox for free on GP, or wait 3 months and pay $70 on PS5. Every Xbox user I know would be happy with that arrangement.

Also:"We'd love to give you PS users the same deal, but Sony won't let us put GP on PS"

After it happens 5 times, a PS user might actually want a new Xbox w/GP in 2026.

The games have to be great for it to work though.

From the first word to the last, this is the most desperately sad fanboy fapping bollocks I think I’ve ever read.

This place is no better than than the lowest neogaf fap fest, if this is the acceptable face of discourse.

Keep politics out of gaming unless it’s my sad loser/misogynistic pro witless fuck rantings, oh and XBOX4EVA, slurp slurp.

I notice that the blatant racism and misogyny is now normalised and common place here and it’s only when it’s challenged, that it’s deemed to be political and brushed under the carpet.

The funniest thing is when you attempt to justify it by bringing it up in business conversation.

Is this place low rent Neogaf now?

MODEDIT: please do not escalate further and let cooler heads prevail. This post does not meet the standard of our general community guidelines.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

No idea what you're talking about. You're reading into something that isn't there.

Nothing in my statement is remotely misogynist. It's a strategy discussion. You might not like the strategy I proposed, but it's still a valid option for MS. Argue against it if you don't like it, but don't try to claim it's not something that MS can consider and probably are.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

People, we had the mod notice already. I definitely contributed to this derail so I'm not claiming innocence by any means, but this kind of stuff is part of the reason the mods said "Eh fuck it" and temporarily shut down the site. There are other forums here for this.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'll just say that the discourse of video games, like many other things in society has taken a huge nose dive over the past decade or so and it makes it so that it's utterly exhausting keeping up with it in general.

As for the actual point of the thread, I think MSs plans are very confusing and don't make much sense to be honest. They need to make capital is presumably why they are opening up their games to more markets.

But this runs counter to the idea I keep hearing where what they are planning is just the status quo with 1 or two games coming to the competition.

Is that going to make up the difference of them needing to actually make capital? It doesn't seem like it. So either go whole hog or you might as well not even hold a conference and just say you canceled the plans. Because anything less than a significant shift in their strategy won't move the needle.

 

[steveOrino]

Everything points to a full winddown IMO

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I think they are going to allow select games like Sea of Thieves and HFR to go multiplatform and some traditionally 3rd party ones like Call of Duty and Diablo as well. Probably not core titles like Halo, Gears and Forza though. New stuff like IJ is a toss up. Let's face it though, a single player adventure game is right what Sony fans like, so it's quite possible.

 

[techuse]

If they start releasing their games on PlayStation, I question whether they would sell enough of their own consoles to justify remaining in the hardware market.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I don't, depending on how they handle it.

Remember, the ecosystem lock down cuts both ways.

 

[techuse]

I hope Microsoft knows what they are doing. We certainly don’t want Sony becoming the Nvidia of the console market. It’s only bad for consumers when a single company has a stranglehold on the entire industry.

 

[ZebMacahan]

Was it a good decision to make Indiana Jones 1st person? The studio is formerly starbreeze (right?), so those kind of games are were they excell. It would also differente it from Uncharted and Tombraider. On the other hand Xbox dont really have much in story based 3d person games.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Are MS still making a loss on each XBox sold? It was ~$200, has that changed at any point? If they are then that's probably had a big deciding factor in this. They've run up an $80 billion acquisition hole that needs to be filled, hardware sales are trending below their worst ever console (Xb one), and their biggest releases have not exactly set the world alight nor have they been system sellars. Whatever is happening with GamesPass doesn't seem to be enough, the idea of just borrowing games, whilst you can afford ro pay for the subscription, instead of owning them hasn't really had major, to the point where it makes a difference, takeup or impacted Steam, Epic, or Sony et al.

There are a alot of big ticket negatives on the table about the XBox business, and more importantly ROI, and the benefits are all in the future and very uncertain. Moving to a multi platform launch model brings in many much needed dollars to the ecosystem that can help trun the tide of red into black at the cost of brand advocay. I can imagine the bean counters are viewing that as a very small price to pay compared to the current state of the business.