Cars...

[Frank]

The V8s in the G8 and charger all put out ~400 hp, with nice flat torque curves thanks the large displacement. There's no replacement for displacement, a 1.8l turbo 4 an never even come close imo.

Totally not true. Simplest example: in F1 racing, they first allowed only 3.0 liter engines without turbo, or 1.5 liter ones with turbo. As the turbocharged engines wiped the floor with the naturally aspirated ones, they increased those to 3.5 liter, but that didn't make much of a difference. So they banned turbocharged engines altogether, as they expected that reducing their displacement and increasing that of the NA engines wouldn't make much of a difference in the long run, and be a losing game for the NA ones.

Add a mechanical compressor as well, and you're for regular cars mostly limited by costs and emission standards and such, not by the maximum power attainable.

Edit: that 1.8 TSI puts out 180 hp on the stand, and can be chipped to about 230 hp without changing any of the other parts. The 1.4 TSI 118kw actually delivers 160 hp / 240 Nm (instead of 150/200 as I said before), does ~ 175 on the stand and can be chipped to about 220 hp.

The old 2.0 turbo engine of the Impreza could deliver close to 500 hp, if going all-out on the tuning and fitting bigger/stronger mechanical parts (like turbo, valves and camshaft) where needed.

Edit: or how about up to 800 bhp?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

The V8s in the G8 and charger all put out ~400 hp, with nice flat torque curves thanks the large displacement. There's no replacement for displacement, a 1.8l turbo 4 an never even come close imo.

No and there is also no replacement for your wallet being raped driving a car with a v8 engine while most of the time you are happy if you can even hit 100kmph.

Of course the escalade is shit. Huge SUV built solely to cash in on the ridiculous SUV craze that swept NA. On that note the cayenne is also shit IMO. Not even close to a real porsche.

While I agree on the last part, ofcourse this is bullshit. Yes the Cayenne is not a real Porsche imo, but despite that its a good car. Something that cannot be said of the Escalade.

A) Build/Interior quality is shit

But then there are *plenty* of American cars that are very reliable. My moms ford focus has been going since 2000 and has over 200k kms on it with no major failures for example. Interior quality? Just personal preference. So what if they use plastic. Completely subjective.

a) So walking around with your underware over your head might be considerd normal by some people too. Doesnt mean it is. Just as using cheap plastic doesnt make for a good interior. Period.

Btw, isnt the Ford focus platform based (or made in coorperation) with Mazda?

B) Handling sucks

where are the numbers????

Compare your average european road with a american road and you know why.

 

[digitalwanderer]

B) Handling sucks

where are the numbers????

Watch Top Gear? Handling numbers are sort of tricky, I think it's a lot of subjectivity too.

My experience there is just a night/day difference between the American cars I've driven and the Japanese/European ones in handling, it's apparent as soon as you get behind the wheel.

Then again when we started getting Jap/Euro cars we tended to get nice ones, so again it's not a fact but an opinion.

It's the rear end, it really is. American cars just feel like they all have a fat-ass to me.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I dont really care about being eco-friendly. All i care about is how fast the thing can go, how it handles and how it looks.



There are 2 good cars that have came out of the USA, the GT40 (originial one) and the Corvette Z06.

The gt40 was designed by lola so even that isnt american (apart from its engine). Not really being american is probably the reason why it was that good

 

[Sxotty]

Btw, isnt the Ford focus platform based (or made in coorperation) with Mazda?

And the mazda pickup was based on a ford, and the honda on a dodge, and on and on.

Further the worst transmission ford put out in recent memory was a mazda transmission. The quality difference issue is pretty much BS now.

Digi top gear is total crap btw as far as objectivity goes.

 

[Frank]

Digi top gear is total crap btw as far as objectivity goes.

Yes, for example when they showed the Tesla Roadster being out of power: the BBC later admitted that both cars on the set never had a flat battery, that it was all staged.

Top Gear is fun if you like to see fast cars you'll probably never be able to afford, and crap if you actually want to know anything about the cars they show.

 

[digitalwanderer]

TOP GEAR IS GOD, SHUT UP!

<ahem>

Did I mention there's some real deals on American cars right now? Some Chrysler dealerships are really between a rock and a hard place:

The soon to be terminated 789 Chrysler dealerships have all of five days to sell thousands of Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep models, or else the damned dealers may have to eat their remaining inventory. When the termination letters went out on May 14, the pink-slipped dealers had 44,000 new cars and trucks on their lots, and there are still plenty of vehicles left to sell. Times are tough for the 789 closing Chrysler dealerships, but for customers looking to get into a new Chrysler, Dodge, or Jeep, this may be the best time ever to get off the sidelines and buy.

I take back what I said, Jeeps are actually quite nice and I wouldn't mind owning one. That's definitely a decent American car.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

Totally not true. Simplest example: in F1 racing, they first allowed only 3.0 liter engines without turbo, or 1.5 liter ones with turbo. As the turbocharged engines wiped the floor with the naturally aspirated ones, they increased those to 3.5 liter, but that didn't make much of a difference. So they banned turbocharged engines altogether, as they expected that reducing their displacement and increasing that of the NA engines wouldn't make much of a difference in the long run, and be a losing game for the NA ones.

Add a mechanical compressor as well, and you're for regular cars mostly limited by costs and emission standards and such, not by the maximum power attainable.

Edit: that 1.8 TSI puts out 180 hp on the stand, and can be chipped to about 230 hp without changing any of the other parts. The 1.4 TSI 118kw actually delivers 160 hp / 240 Nm (instead of 150/200 as I said before), does ~ 175 on the stand and can be chipped to about 220 hp.

The old 2.0 turbo engine of the Impreza could deliver close to 500 hp, if going all-out on the tuning and fitting bigger/stronger mechanical parts (like turbo, valves and camshaft) where needed.

Edit: or how about up to 800 bhp?

Ok well yeah if you put enough PSI through any engine you can generate huge numbers. Couple things though, firstly the power curve on that 800HP WRX is probably suicidal (turbo lag), secondly if you stuck a big turbo on any of these V8s you'd be looking at 1000+ hp easy.

I read a review for the G8 GT and although favorable (road and track review) they did say that handling left something to be desired. Suspension tuning could probably fix that however. And still the review was entirely positive.

My experience there is just a night/day difference between the American cars I've driven and the Japanese/European ones in handling, it's apparent as soon as you get behind the wheel.

Do you even go to the track? You can't asses a cars handling performance unless you're pulling the requisite G forces around corners and that certainly is not going to happen on roads.

Really though do you guys not find that American cars get bashed all too often without any real reason? It just smells really bad to me. Very similar to the ignorant vista bashing that the masses enjoy so much to engage in.

 

[digitalwanderer]

You can't asses a cars handling performance unless you're pulling the requisite G forces around corners and that certainly is not going to happen on roads.

You have no clue on how I drive.

Really though do you guys not find that American cars get bashed all too often without any real reason? It just smells really bad to me.

Nope, American cars have earned that bash over the years. I've been driving American cars since the mid-80s and have driven models from the 50s to present, I'm not without some smattering of experience with 'em.

 

[Sxotty]

I have to say I drove the G6 sport GT whatever it was called around some very gnarly roads and it handled quite well IMO. My reference as you know is a WRX, but I do have a STI suspension on it. My vehicle does roll a bit less, but the G6 held very well to the road even if it did feel different. Jeeps as in Jeep wranglers are fine, the rest are just minivans that are a bit higher off the ground, no frame, just unibody construction.

 

[Frank]

How (not) to drive a car.

 

[Mize]

re: handling of US cars...

G8 GT: 361 bhp from a V8, 0-60 mph 5.0 seconds, 0.85g skidpad and 64.3 mph slalom.
Suby WRX STI: 305 bhp from a t4, 0-60 mph 5.0 seconds, 0.90g skidpad and 69.8 mph slalom.

"no replacement for displacement" is no longer valid.

Even the GXP G8 can only hit 65 mph in the slalom.

 

[Sxotty]

So Mize I have a question is the mass the reason for poor slalom performance? That is what immediately springs to mind that changing direction of the greater mass makes the slalom speed worse,

But

Isn't friction directly related to normal force and hence mass, so shouldn't the friction from the tires scale linearly with mass increase to the slalom should be unchanged if suspension is adjusted for increased mass?

I am honestly curious, though I am not sure who knows the answer.

 

[Mize]

in slalom you're working with dynamic coefficient of friction which is a hard one to pin down - tires, suspension, drive wheels all affect it.

The Suby is nearly 700#s lighter and that makes a huge difference. Very few heavy cars take a slalom well. The reason the best US sports car (Corvette) is so great is because it's light (lighter than the Suby).

 

[3dcgi]

The G8 is good but still very heavy. Comparable to the charger in a lot of ways. Really i think people are way too hard on American cars. We have some good cars. Where's the nationalistic pride people? In japan people buy japanese products to support japnese industry, we need more of that in NA (i guess it's too late now though lol).

I was shopping for a new car recently and the G8 was one of my finalists. In the short bit of driving I did in it the handling and suspension were great. It is a big car so that will hurt slalom numbers and such for compared to its peers I think it fares well. The interior quality is also impressive compared to that of many US cars. In this day and age it's disappointing the V6 doesn't have better fuel economy. Also, it's funny the G8 is being discussed as an American car since it's probably more Australian.

FYI. I ended up buying a Maxima because the G8 was missing some features I decided I wanted.

There are 2 good cars that have came out of the USA, the GT40 (originial one) and the Corvette Z06.

The Vette is amazingly good value for money, and they spend ages with the car on nurburgring in germany, so it handles very nicely aswell. Interior wise, the quality is piss poor, and the whole thing doesn't seem to be build to last.

...

The worst, is that all your cars seems to be build to last for 3 years. I guess its because you crazy americans switch cars every 3 years (which to me is mindblowing, but thats another story).

I have yet to be in an american with a good looking interior, or an interior of high quality and finish for that matter. The material choices and finish makes it all look terrible. Whats up with putting plastic into a $100k car interior?

Doesn't even matter how much your willing to spend on an american car either.
Material choices and interior build quality is allways, atleast in my experience, waaaaaaaay worse than european counterparts. Lots of plastic, things seems to not fit correctly etc.

There's an incorrect stereotype in this post. Most Americans don't switch cars every 3 years and of those that do most of them lease the car so they can get a better car for a lower monthly payment.

Personally I like the look of some American interiors, but I agree over the years there's been too much cheap plastic.

I have a 2002 Corvette and the interior fit and finish isn't what you'd expect for a 40k+ car, but it works and has lasted well.

You specifically mention the original GT40 leaving out the newer Ford GT. Have you seen a GT in person? I've only seen one at a car show. They look fabulous.

 

[Frank]

No reactions on the video I posted?

 

[Mize]

No reactions on the video I posted?

Sorry.
It was freakin' amazing!

 

[Frank]

Sorry.
It was freakin' amazing!

Yeah. That's what I want to do for a living.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

No reactions on the video I posted?

Yea it was sick. Insane driving. However I didn't like how they put water balloons and florescent lights on the road just so he could run over them with the car. Pretty lame imo, and the guy with the paintball gun? wtf. The driving is enough to keep me interested without random stuff like that.

 

[Mize]

agreed fnbp, but that drift through the door right to the edge of that pier was my favorite. I wonder how many times he had to practice...only AWD drift could do this stuff.