Business ramifications of piracy *spawn

[patsu]

In the end removing or keeping OtherOS might've been irrelevant, since the service-mode dongle showed up. People like to construct narratives around these events, though, and it sends a better message if they can say that Sony brought this upon themselves. (Well, they did by screwing up the crypto code, but I mean in terms of behavior regarding the PS3.)

Yeap, I don't think OtherOS is the crux of the issue. Sony's over-reliance on the Cell security is the key problem. There are folks who have been hacking PS3 for a number of years.

If Sony had been diligent about the security fundamentals, PS3 may get hacked one day but it won't fail so spectacularly (with fireworks and virtual symphony playing in the background).

 

[jonabbey]

What do you expect them to do? Sony hasn't pronounced itself at all on this, they're probably all scurrying on how to spin this to the press.

Oh, I don't expect them to do anything different, but this is the Internet / social networking age. I hope that they do talk about it at some point. They have to understand that staying silent about this won't do them any good at this point in the public relations game.

Staying silent might be good policy in preparation of legal battles, and it might be good policy in terms of not tipping their hand in terms of what technical counter measures they might attempt, but it's not like they can have any secrets left to hide.

I guess I'm just wanting them to do something to alleviate the crushing feeling that I've got that I've been a fan boy of #?%!@ morons, but that's properly not their concern.

They had better be talking to their publishers, though, to explain how it is that by the end of the month any kid with a PS3 will be able to stick a PUP file on a USB stick, update their PS3 from it, buy a big external hard drive, rent any game they like and copy it to their big disk.

Gods.

 

[patsu]

They had better be talking to their publishers, though, to explain how it is that by the end of the month any kid with a PS3 will be able to stick a PUP file on a USB stick, update their PS3 from it, buy a big external hard drive, rent any game they like and copy it to their big disk.

I don't think you need to worry about that. The publishers are likely in touch with Sony already. They probably called Sony first (I would !).

 

[obonicus]

Oh, I don't expect them to do anything different, but this is the Internet / social networking age. I hope that they do talk about it at some point. They have to understand that staying silent about this won't do them any good at this point in the public relations game.

Staying silent might be good policy in preparation of legal battles, and it might be good policy in terms of not tipping their hand in terms of what technical counter measures they might attempt, but it's not like they can have any secrets left to hide.

I guess I'm just wanting them to do something to alleviate the crushing feeling that I've got that I've been a fan boy of #?%!@ morons, but that's properly not their concern.

They had better be talking to their publishers, though, to explain how it is that by the end of the month any kid with a PS3 will be able to stick a PUP file on a USB stick, update their PS3 from it, buy a big external hard drive, rent any game they like and copy it to their big disk.

Gods.

I don't know, man. There's no way to defend this screw-up. Paying a lot of money for a secure chip, only to use it incorrectly is just a little too much. (I even have a hard time believing the constant random number thing is 'just a mistake'. Did someone forget to switch some debug code, and no one caught it in 4 years?)

As to publishers, I wonder if it'll really be that simple. The first attempts to decrypt GT5 weren't immediately successful. I think instead we'll be seeing 'releases', stripped/cracked versions of games put out on the usual venues. Which isn't much better, of course. If people really can do what you describe, I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more dual layer BD-ROMs padded to the gills.

 

[Mize]

...or more PS3 games with uber-long, hologram-bearing, activation stickers and phone-home activation required...i.e. securing the software, not the console.

 

[jonabbey]

I don't know, man. There's no way to defend this screw-up. Paying a lot of money for a secure chip, only to use it incorrectly is just a little too much. (I even have a hard time believing the constant random number thing is 'just a mistake'. Did someone forget to switch some debug code, and no one caught it in 4 years?)

Yeah, well, I'm not wanting them to defend the indefensible. And if they come out and say how culpable they are for this, that would come up in any possible legal action against Sony, or by Sony against the hackers.

I don't know, isn't Seppuku still a thing over there?

I guess the best they can realistically do is assure publishers behind closed doors that PS4 is coming in the next couple of years, that it will be worth investing in, and they'll get the damn security right next time.

As to publishers, I wonder if it'll really be that simple. The first attempts to decrypt GT5 weren't immediately successful. I think instead we'll be seeing 'releases', stripped/cracked versions of games put out on the usual venues. Which isn't much better, of course. If people really can do what you describe, I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more dual layer BD-ROMs padded to the gills.

Oh, I'm sure new games will come out with whatever roadblocks they can think of, but that won't help everything currently on the market.

I pity the publisher who is told by Sony that they have the choice of waiting 3 months for SCE to come up with some temporary counter measure to incorporate into their discs or to go ahead and publish with the knowledge that their game could be ripped off by anyone with a PS3 and an under-developed sense of ethics, though.

Q1 2011: The quarter without any PS3 releases.

 

[jonabbey]

...or more PS3 games with uber-long, hologram-bearing, activation stickers and phone-home activation required...i.e. securing the software, not the console.

Ah, you're right, that seems quite likely. Pity about those PS3s not connected to the Internet, though.

 

[Mize]

Ah, you're right, that seems quite likely. Pity about those PS3s not connected to the Internet, though.

Just like MS and others...toll free registration phone calls...resale value on games tends to tank too! Maybe phone home (internet or literally) titles with X activations?

 

[jonabbey]

As to publishers, I wonder if it'll really be that simple. The first attempts to decrypt GT5 weren't immediately successful. I think instead we'll be seeing 'releases', stripped/cracked versions of games put out on the usual venues. Which isn't much better, of course. If people really can do what you describe, I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more dual layer BD-ROMs padded to the gills.

When pirates are free to write their own arbitrarily modified firmware and it can be installed by any PS3 users, there's nothing to stop copying retail discs to hard drives that can then be run by the custom firmware.

If the game signing keys are truly lost, then illegal copies on the net pre-signed to work on any PS3 would also be possible.

If I were the piratical type and if I were willing to have a PS3 for offline use, without trophies and such, I know the custom firmware + rental option would be a lot more appealing than having to visit sleazy corners of the web and download multi-gig files.

 

[jonabbey]

Just like MS and others...toll free registration phone calls...resale value on games tends to tank too! Maybe phone home (internet or literally) titles with X activations?

Yeah, makes sense. Hard to believe it would come to that, but it's hard to believe the position Sony's in now.

 

[Mize]

PS3, meet the PC gaming world.

 

[patsu]

Ha ha, business model wise, yes.

Kutaragi said the same thing in his Forbes interview.

 

[BRiT]

PS3, meet the PC gaming world.

I'd say it's quite a bit worse than that, considering the current PS3 titles have no other means of security or DRM like current PC games have. The PS3 would have to evolve into the current PC Gaming World with additional security or DRM.

 

[Elan Tedronai]

The latest news is that apparently some folks at SCEI are considering a massive product recalls and new ps3 hardware revisions. This is going to cost alot of money. Stringer is going to be pissed

 

[Mize]

The latest news is that apparently some folks at SCEI are considering a massive product recalls and new ps3 hardware revisions. This is going to cost alot of money. Stringer is going to be pissed

In the other thread my estimate was $12B so that must be high if they're actually considering it.

 

[Squilliam]

That's what I'm wondering about. Knowledgeable users who crack their console will be able to keep their hacked firmware always up to date, to defeat whatever Sony does, but those guys are essentially us, insignificant. Joe Schmoe who buys his console pre-modded may not be so capable; naturally, if pirates are ambitious (and suicidal) they could set up some sort of auto-update function, but for obvious reasons that'd be problematic.

Looking at the DF piece it appears that the pirates have the master key too and can create custom firmware. Essentially if the game requires same firmware = great, if not the cracked firmware can come with the cracked game and update at runtime. Essentially if Sony can create a new firmware to defeat the crack then the pirates can create custom firmware and bundle it with the software to update the PS3 at the same time to the required crack level.

This could very easily be more Joe Schmoe proof than PC piracy given the fact that it has a greater probability of working and may even be simpler in many ways.

 

[jonabbey]

The latest news is that apparently some folks at SCEI are considering a massive product recalls and new ps3 hardware revisions. This is going to cost alot of money. Stringer is going to be pissed

Got a link for this latest news?

 

[obonicus]

Looking at the DF piece it appears that the pirates have the master key too and can create custom firmware. Essentially if the game requires same firmware = great, if not the cracked firmware can come with the cracked game and update at runtime. Essentially if Sony can create a new firmware to defeat the crack then the pirates can create custom firmware and bundle it with the software to update the PS3 at the same time to the required crack level.

Actually, I was thinking of the upcoming firmware back and forth we're probably going to see in an attempt to keep online unpolluted.

This could very easily be more Joe Schmoe proof than PC piracy given the fact that it has a greater probability of working and may even be simpler in many ways.

PC gaming produces its own barriers, so yeah, in one sense it'll be simpler. It probably won't be simpler than the PS2 was, though.

 

[patsu]

The latest news is that apparently some folks at SCEI are considering a massive product recalls and new ps3 hardware revisions. This is going to cost alot of money. Stringer is going to be pissed

If true, probably a different level of recalls (Fix the ones in the channels).

I would hate to send my PS3 back without a replacement immediately. Are they going to offer a one-to-one swap @ GameStop ?

 

[Trejser]

They won't do such think, it's crazy