Long term future of console gaming, its last days *spawn

[chris1515]

Reminds me of the very rational 'PC is dying' arguments. Or the 'Nintendo should go 3rd party' arguments too. Common sense has a tendency to not play out how we'd expect.

I imagine when consoles do die, they'll be replaced with streaming rather than PC. At the moment consoles aren't dying; Sony won't stop making PS consoles until they can no longer make (good) money from it, which doesn't look to me to be next gen. So I guess, unless you can point to PS6 being canned and Sony putting out a PC instead, this line of discussion doesn't fit this particular thread.

+1 console will be replaced by streaming not PC.

 

[eastmen]

I don't think consoles will die. We have one wave of consoles left at the end of transistor shrinking and that will be supported indefinitely until we find a new way of producing chips or internet becomes fast enough where streaming is a viable replacement. PC components will hit the same wall. I wonder what happens to all these hardware companies once we get to that final 1nm since they dont have a software business like consoles makers do.

could always make the console bigger also. Maybe ps5 / xbox one size will be the norm.

 

[Remij]

Reminds me of the very rational 'PC is dying' arguments. Or the 'Nintendo should go 3rd party' arguments too. Common sense has a tendency to not play out how we'd expect.

I imagine when consoles do die, they'll be replaced with streaming rather than PC. At the moment consoles aren't dying; Sony won't stop making PS consoles until they can no longer make (good) money from it, which doesn't look to me to be next gen. So I guess, unless you can point to PS6 being canned and Sony putting out a PC instead, this line of discussion doesn't fit this particular thread.

I'll take your hint and shut up about it, but what platform do you think those streaming devices will stream from?

 

[Nesh]

I'll take your hint and shut up about it, but what platform do you think those streaming devices will stream from?

It certainly wont be a PERSONAL computer anymore

 

[Remij]

It certainly wont be a PERSONAL computer anymore

Sure it will.... unless you think MS is going to create a new server platform.. and no longer support the PC.. LOL.

 

[Nesh]

Sure it will.... unless you think MS is going to create a new server platform.. and no longer support the PC.. LOL.

Surely you can still have your own PERSONAL computer at home with Windows, but unless you are using that to stream games to your TV, you will be streaming games from a non-PERSONAL computer. So technically its not even a PC. Surely if we want to be very broad then we can call them "PCs" but so we can call todays consoles also "PCs" under the same logic

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'll take your hint and shut up about it, but what platform do you think those streaming devices will stream from?

A gaming stick or streaming TV. Something running Android or iOS that no-one uses for productivity.

 

[Nesh]

A gaming stick or streaming TV. Something running Android or iOS that no-one uses for productivity.

I thought their argument all along was that the streaming device (stick or TV) would be streaming from a "PC" in some farm somewhere which will be rendering the game and sending the signal/streaming content to you. So essentially they call it PC

 

[PSman1700]

Theres sure coming another generation of consoles, they will most likely be even less impressive hardware wise as the current was late 2020, however that will almost certainly be the last generation. Gamers will either have to step to streaming (most likely for console users) or pc gaming.

 

[Nesh]

Theres sure coming another generation of consoles, they will most likely be even less impressive hardware wise as the current was late 2020, however that will almost certainly be the last generation. Gamers will either have to step to streaming (most likely for console users) or pc gaming.

Can you elaborate how you imagine that PC which will replace consoles in terms of form factor, price, simplicity and performance that will attract the average joe, the average teenager and very young kids to view it as a perfect substitute?

 

[PSman1700]

Can you elaborate how you imagine that PC which will replace consoles in terms of form factor, price, simplicity and performance that will attract the average joe, the average teenager and very young kids to view it as a perfect substitute?

Laptops. Im already seeing that today. Reasonable priced laptops with quite impressive performance are becoming more and more common. I agree that the traditional desktop doesnt really replace consoles, however (gaming) laptops today are lightweight, portable, powerfull and provide 'gaming on the go'. You can have it in the living room, bedroom, practically anywhere. Something like the Steam Deck also fills that market somewhere.
Im seeing more and more 7 to 10 year olds (including own family members) using gaming laptops as their primary gaming devices, even when owning PS4 pro and switch consoles.

The laptop also enables them to do more than just gaming.

I feel this ties abit in with this post from eastman

Cost of building a gaming PC *spawn

They bring up well if you can afford $1200 for the 4080 16gig can you afford $1600 for the 4090. Those are really big numbers! These used to be the pricing of the professional tier GPUs.

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[Nesh]

Laptops. Im already seeing that today. Reasonable priced laptops with quite impressive performance are becoming more and more common. I agree that the traditional desktop doesnt really replace consoles, however (gaming) laptops today are lightweight, portable, powerfull and provide 'gaming on the go'. You can have it in the living room, bedroom, practically anywhere. Something like the Steam Deck also fills that market somewhere.
Im seeing more and more 7 to 10 year olds (including own family members) using gaming laptops as their primary gaming devices, even when owning PS4 pro and switch consoles.

The laptop also enables them to do more than just gaming.

I feel this ties abit in with this post from eastman

Cost of building a gaming PC *spawn

They bring up well if you can afford $1200 for the 4080 16gig can you afford $1600 for the 4090. Those are really big numbers! These used to be the pricing of the professional tier GPUs.

forum.beyond3d.com

Do you think that we will be getting powerful gaming laptops at the same price point as consoles? They are usually more expensive than there desktop counterparts. Steam Decks cost more than a Series S and some more than a Series X and a PS5. What price do you thing such a laptop will have?
How do you think the demographics I mentioned will be attracted to a laptop in the living room in terms of foolproof usability? if yes how?
Every generation we had the same discussion with the same arguments about PCs being just as good or better, but we have never seen it in practice capturing the hearts of the console gamers. So there must be a reason. If consoles die, most likely a reaon for a PC or Laptop in the living room will also seize to exist because their replacement will be a streaming service

Unless a company re-invents PC/Laptop design through some amazing innovation similar to Steam Deck I put a big question mark.

 

[techuse]

could always make the console bigger also. Maybe ps5 / xbox one size will be the norm.

How big would you have to make it to achieve a performance jump large enough to make a new console worth it on the same 1nm node process? I suspect it wouldn’t come remotely close to being a viable option.

 

[Remij]

A gaming stick or streaming TV. Something running Android or iOS that no-one uses for productivity.

Uh, what I mean is... what platform does the streaming device connect to... which is to say what platform is the game built for?

Obviously MS sticks with their platform.. and if you're a developer or publisher making games, why would you make multiple builds of a game on different platforms when you can make one and distribute it everywhere?

 

[Remij]

I thought their argument all along was that the streaming device (stick or TV) would be streaming from a "PC" in some farm somewhere which will be rendering the game and sending the signal/streaming content to you. So essentially they call it PC

Because that's what it is... and that's what it would do... unless you think MS is going to throw away the platforms they've built and start over on Linux or something?.....

Developers would be building the game for PC... and deploy it on PCs and in their servers for streaming. Like that, developers could create one build of the game and deploy it across all devices. PCs, "Consoles" (prebuilt generic PCs) and Cloud.

I mean, if cloud gaming really takes off... which versions of games do you think developers are going to put into the cloud for streaming??? They're going to put their entire back catalogs of games into the services.

PC has far and away the most games, the richest back catalog.. That's not going to go away.

If you're Sony and MS, why would you spend tons of R&D money to create a console when you could just as easily sell a pre-built PC for a profit with little to no R&D?

 

[eastmen]

How big would you have to make it to achieve a performance jump large enough to make a new console worth it on the same 1nm node process? I suspect it wouldn’t come remotely close to being a viable option.

depends on where you can put it. in the living room next to my tv I'd rather it be smaller than larger. Can I put it in the closet or in the basement ? Then it wouldn't really matter the size. I think there will always be people who want better and if there is a small segment of gaming willing to pay $1,000 usd for a console the size of a full size atx tower just so they can get a higher resolution or frame rate vs the standard one there will be people who will buy it. Esp if there isn't anything further down the pipe line to purchase. If things stop at 1nm do you purchase a PS7 at $500 the size of say a ps5 is now knowing its your last console ever or do you purchase a ps7 pro twice the size of a ps5 for double the price but offers better performance?

It's the same on the pc side. do you buy a case that can fit a 4070 only or do you buy a case that can fit a 4090 ? or two 4090 or even bigger cards ? PC offers more flexibility cause unlike a console you can just take your old components and put them in a bigger case

 

[techuse]

depends on where you can put it. in the living room next to my tv I'd rather it be smaller than larger. Can I put it in the closet or in the basement ? Then it wouldn't really matter the size. I think there will always be people who want better and if there is a small segment of gaming willing to pay $1,000 usd for a console the size of a full size atx tower just so they can get a higher resolution or frame rate vs the standard one there will be people who will buy it. Esp if there isn't anything further down the pipe line to purchase. If things stop at 1nm do you purchase a PS7 at $500 the size of say a ps5 is now knowing its your last console ever or do you purchase a ps7 pro twice the size of a ps5 for double the price but offers better performance?

It's the same on the pc side. do you buy a case that can fit a 4070 only or do you buy a case that can fit a 4090 ? or two 4090 or even bigger cards ? PC offers more flexibility cause unlike a console you can just take your old components and put them in a bigger case

I personally think PS6 will be the last iteration because there isn't a large enough market to support a super expensive, mini fridge sized console that draws 1000 watts.

 

[Nesh]

Because that's what it is... and that's what it would do... unless you think MS is going to throw away the platforms they've built and start over on Linux or something?.....

Developers would be building the game for PC... and deploy it on PCs and in their servers for streaming. Like that, developers could create one build of the game and deploy it across all devices. PCs, "Consoles" (prebuilt generic PCs) and Cloud.

I mean, if cloud gaming really takes off... which versions of games do you think developers are going to put into the cloud for streaming??? They're going to put their entire back catalogs of games into the services.

PC has far and away the most games, the richest back catalog.. That's not going to go away.

If you're Sony and MS, why would you spend tons of R&D money to create a console when you could just as easily sell a pre-built PC for a profit with little to no R&D?

Ii think you are missing the point but oh well

 

[eastmen]

I personally think PS6 will be the last iteration because there isnt a large enough market to support a super expensive, mini fridge sized console that draws 1000 watts.

maybe but who knows. I didn't think people would buy gigantic super expensive records anymore. But the world proved me wrong

 

[Remij]

Ii think you are missing the point but oh well

No, I doubt that I am. Your response that it would no longer be "personal" computer... simply doesn't change my point at all. There would still be PCs.. and that would be the platform those games would be developed for and sold on, as well as being deployed to servers for streaming purposes.

If you want to feel that you're winning some kind of argument by the streaming no longer being "personal" then be my guest.