Bush meets the press

[Legion]

Quote me. Don't infer. Quote me.

excuse me? Quote you? You just stated you can't misrepresent what i wrote Natoma.

 

[Natoma]

And as for quoting you legion, let's not forget this very long and drawn out quoting spree of myself and you in building my case.

For anyone that wants to back track to where you were outright saying I said things I never put to paper, then they can start right here.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210718#210718

It was rather obvious to Paul that I was due an apology from you, and you have said that if you misrepresented, you apologize. Well, as evidenced by the link, you most certainly did misrepresent. So I don't want a "well if i did" because that part is not in doubt. You did. So at this point, all I want is "I apologize."

That's it, and nothing more.

 

[Natoma]

Quote me. Don't infer. Quote me.

excuse me? Quote you? You just stated you can't misrepresent what i wrote Natoma.

BTW - may I ask for an apology for your assertions i was stating homosexuality was deviant (ie wicked) knowing that of course has never been my position. I don't know if you ever apologized for misrepresenting me and i would liek to lay this matter to rest.

You said you wanted an apology for my assertions that you stated homosexuality was deviant. And I responded with your own words where you made that assertion.

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

Now that I've obviously shown that you referred to homosexuality as a deviant mutation, can you please show me where I misrepresented you, with my own words and not your inferences.

 

[Legion]

I honestly don't care what was "obvious" to paul. I can not analyze why he felt it was "obvious".

All i am really asking for Natoma is an apology for your misrepresentations of my use the of word deviant. I shouldn't have to quote you, you and i both know you did misrepresent or at least misunderstand me as we spoke of it at some length before in our last dicussion concerning genetic predeterminism as well as in IMs.

If you at least misunderstood me i would still like to put the matter to rest. I am not interested in being latter categorized as a bigot for having legitimate argument against genetic predeterminism.

 

[Natoma]

You damn well do need to quote me. If you're going attribute statements to me that I dispute, you better have proof to back up your claims.

I've shown absolutely no hesitation in quoting you to make my case. I ask that you do the same, especially if you're going to say I did particular things.

 

[Legion]

Here is a dictionary.com definition of the word deviant again

de·vi·ant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv-nt)
adj.
Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

n.
One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

You have stated you can not misrepresent what i have written however you took me to imply homosexuality is a wicked mutation. I have never stated anything that would have provided you this notion of what i stated.

What i infact stated was homosexuality was a mutation that differs from the norms of natural world, if infact homosexuality is genetically predetermined. For you to state you are genetically predetermined to be homosexual would therefore be an admittion you are a deviant mutation. If anything you should have derived an insult from mutation and not deviant. I made this particular statement inorder to grab your attention and point it to the conclusion of your reasoning.

 

[Legion]

You damn well do need to quote me. If you're going attribute statements to me that I dispute, you better have proof to back up your claims.

I've shown absolutely no hesitation in quoting you to make my case. I ask that you do the same, especially if you're going to say I did particular things.

Like state you took me at my word by quoting me saying homosexuality is a deviant mutation by your reasoning? Seems you provided me with a quote demonstrating what i have stated.

 

[Natoma]

Here is a dictionary.com definition of the word deviant again

de·vi·ant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv-nt)
adj.
Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.

n.
One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

You have stated you can not misrepresent what i have written however you took me to imply homosexuality is a wicked mutation. I have never stated anything that would have provided you this notion of what i stated.

What i infact stated was homosexuality was a mutation that differs from the norms of natural world, if infact homosexuality is genetically predetermined. For you to state you are genetically predetermined to be homosexual would therefore be an admittion you are a deviant mutation. If anything you should have derived an insult from mutation and not deviant. I made this particular statement inorder to grab your attention and point it to the conclusion of your reasoning.

Where did I say that????!!!! Give me quotes with my name on it!! Not your INFERENCES! Where did I "took me to imply homosexuality is a wicked mutation" anywhere? Show me where I said that.

Thank you.

 

[Natoma]

You damn well do need to quote me. If you're going attribute statements to me that I dispute, you better have proof to back up your claims.

I've shown absolutely no hesitation in quoting you to make my case. I ask that you do the same, especially if you're going to say I did particular things.

Like state you took me at my word by quoting me saying homosexuality is a deviant mutation by your reasoning? Seems you provided me with a quote demonstrating what i have stated.

:?

What are you saying exactly? I just want a quote where I misrepresented you. You said I might as well see homosexuality as a deviant mutation because I believe it is genetically predisposed, did you not?

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

So I'm asking you to provide quotes of me where I misrepresented what you stated.

I feel like giving popcorn out to any spectators of this debacle.

 

[Legion]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9762&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100


Here you are. Read through this page for a sense of context. This is the page where i first state you are mispresenting me.

 

[Natoma]

Oh lord.

Give me a quote please. My words. Where do you feel I misrepresented you with my own words please, and not your inferences.

Am I really asking for so much?

 

[Legion]

Oh lord.

Give me a quote please. My words. Where do you feel I misrepresented you with my own words please, and not your inferences.

Natoma, why can you go through the link? We talk about the issue in length. If i post quotes it will be just one reply after another quoted. You could simply read through the link. Or discussion cover the 5-7 page i believe.

Right now i am on a terminal and i can't open a seperate window. Likewise i am studying. You could just read through it, it wouldn't take long. I directly accuse you of misrepresenting me. If you merely misunderstood what i was stating please tell me so so we can work out these differences.

 

[Natoma]

That is precisely my point. You directly accuse me of misrepresenting you, but you don't offer any quotes to back up that assertion. It is merely your inference that I'm misrepresenting what you said.

This is the quote in contention.

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

You're saying I misrepresented you when I quoted you. Well dear jeebus me, please give me my quote, my words where I did that. I don't want to make a mistake here. I want you to show me where I misrepresented you.

That is all. And guess what, if you can provide that, I will apologize wholeheartedly. But as of now, you haven't shown anything with my words where I misrepresented what you said when you stated:

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

Again, I don't know how one can misrepresent a statement like that. You said flat out that I might as well refer to homosexuality as a deviant mutation since I believe one is genetically predispositioned to it. So please, again, last time, please, show me where I wronged you via misrepresentation.

 

[Legion]

Legion wrote:
Quote:
Now I'm happy that happened. The problem with this discussion is that my line of argumentation is predicated on homosexuality not being a sickness or a mutation or a deviant behavior or a condition. Your line of argumentation and Vince's line of argumentation is predicated on homosexuality being all of those things.


Nope. You are misrepresenting my argument. I am a bisexual. Why would i like to call myself a deviant freak?

I'm misrepresenting your argument? You've never referred to homosexuality as any of those things? Then again I shouldn't be surprised. You also "forgot" in the Iraq/Syrian firm thread about misappropriating many phrases to me, and still haven't apologized about that even when presented with rock hard evidence. So I guess I'm not surprised that you "forgot" here too.

Quote:
You have also on many other occassions referred to homosexuality as deviant.


Care to point this out to me?

Quote:
de·vi·ant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv-nt)
adj.
Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.


Quote:
Ahem.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210702#210702

You stated that you never made any direct attributions to me, when you clearly did, as I quoted in that link. Is this yet another misrepresentation of what you stated?


Ahem is right, this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Yes you have been misrepresenting what i have been saying in this argument.

After asking yu to point out where i have called homosexuality deviant (ie Wicked) you never again posted in the thread.


I could grab a dozen more quotes Natoma but i feel doing such would be superfluous.

I am infact a homosexual hating bisexual. I live life as a conundrum

 

[Natoma]

Nice quote. Unfortunately for you it doesn't answer the question.

Where did I misrepresent this, the quote in contention:

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

You refered to homosexuality as a deviant mutation, and I said you did. And Vince referred to homosexuality as a "condition":

Second, the rest of your argument is full of holes and your arbitrary opinion of your condition. Bud, common' now... my argument was clear and you've yet to address it.

If anything I extrapolated Vince's "condition" statement to "sickness", but was dead on about yours. So please, where did I misrepresent you? There is no doubt that you said homosexuality was a deviant mutation if I believe we are genetically predisposed. I have your words quoted!

 

[Natoma]

And just so no one thinks I'm making this stuff up:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=212332#212332

 

[Legion]

Nice quote. Unfortunately for you it doesn't answer the question.

But it does Natoma. It shows that you stated i refer to homosexualityas a distructive ie wicked. You have done this and stated i have refered to it as such on numerous occassions which of course you never backed up.

If anything I extrapolated Vince's "condition" statement to "sickness", but was dead on about yours. So please, where did I misrepresent you?

I have shown you where you have misrepresented me. You stated i refered to homosexuality as deviant (as wicked, evil distructive) when infact i did not. Please read through the link i provided you. There is quote after quote where i ask yo to provide examples of me doing this. You have never porvided a single exmaple. You simply left the forum.

How were you dead on my statements Natoma? If anything the links and the quotes show just the opposite. I stated within the links there is nothing wrong with homosexuality or other forms of sexual orientation. If anything you ought to have derived i am a very liberal all inclusive sexual person.

Homosexuality is a condition. Its not a sickness so please do not imply i ever said it was. I view it as a choice. I have stated this ad nauseum.


Here again Natoma are the pages where the alledged incident took place:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9762&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

Please read through the thread starting at the page provided. I make my accussations to you very clear and i ask that you support your allegations against me. You haven't to this day.

 

[Natoma]

You stated i refered to homosexuality as deviant (as wicked, evil distructive) when infact i did not.

And this is what it boils down to. Where did I state anything about deviant as "wicked, evil destructive"?

You did call homosexuality a deviant mutation. Where did I say anything else? I want you to quote where I said that deviant = "wicked, evil destructive" or something along those lines.

Please do so. Quotes Legion. Quotes of me saying those words.

And remember, these are your words on the matter.

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

So I want you to show me where I said "deviant (as wicked, evil destructive)" please.

There is this little ditty where you had the gall to ask me where you stated that homosexuality was a deviant mutation:

No, i haven't and yes you are misrepresented my argument. What i stated to you was, implying that there was a genetic cause would also imply mutation. When did i ever stated i believe homosexuality is a deviant mutation?

I mean, c'mon. This is laughable.

 

[Legion]

And this is what it boils down to. Where did I state anything about deviant as "wicked, evil destructive"?

Here again is an example

Now I'm happy that happened. The problem with this discussion is that my line of argumentation is predicated on homosexuality not being a sickness or a mutation or a deviant behavior or a condition. Your line of argumentation and Vince's line of argumentation is predicated on homosexuality being all of those things.

Really? My line of reasoning is comprised of all of those things?

Legion wrote:
Quote:
Now I'm happy that happened. The problem with this discussion is that my line of argumentation is predicated on homosexuality not being a sickness or a mutation or a deviant behavior or a condition. Your line of argumentation and Vince's line of argumentation is predicated on homosexuality being all of those things.


Nope. You are misrepresenting my argument. I am a bisexual. Why would i like to call myself a deviant freak?


I'm misrepresenting your argument? You've never referred to homosexuality as any of those things? Then again I shouldn't be surprised. You also "forgot" in the Iraq/Syrian firm thread about misappropriating many phrases to me, and still haven't apologized about that even when presented with rock hard evidence. So I guess I'm not surprised that you "forgot" here too.

I refered to homosexuality as any of what things? I have forgotten refering to it as what?

Why are you arguing with me if you understood what i meant by homosexuality simply deviating from the norm?

Also how many homosexuals "turn" that way because they were molested. Of course I'll provide your own words on the matter just as I have in the Iraq/Syria thread, and you'll just ignore them or say "Oh I was misunderstood" or some other silliness.


Right Natoma, again you are just trying to excuse blatant misrepresentations of my words by trying to dig into the past.

you know you are completely full of shit and a hypocrit for these very reasons:

1). I have argued agains Joe's natural argument against homosexuality
2). I have stated on many occassions the genetic defense is uneccessary because there is nothing innately wrong with the behavior to go to such great lengths to try and justify it.
3). I have stated i agree with gay marriages.
4). I happen to be a bisexual! If i thought homosexuals were a deviant mutation to be cured wouldn't that imply myself as well?

It seems you are trying to demonize me.

Nice to see how you characterize my argument....

Legion wrote:
Quote:
I'm misrepresenting your argument? You've never referred to homosexuality as any of those things? Then again I shouldn't be surprised.


No, i haven't and yes you are misrepresented my argument. What i stated to you was, implying that there was a genetic cause would also imply mutation. When did i ever stated i believe homosexuality is a deviant mutation?


This was the fastest one to find, in this thread alone. Man you really do say things and have no idea you've said them do you....

Legion wrote:
Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...


You have also on many other occassions referred to homosexuality as deviant.

Really? This is how i replied:

Quote:
You have also on many other occassions referred to homosexuality as deviant.


Care to point this out to me?

Quote:
de·vi·ant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv-nt)
adj.
Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.


Quote:
Ahem.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210702#210702

You stated that you never made any direct attributions to me, when you clearly did, as I quoted in that link. Is this yet another misrepresentation of what you stated?


Ahem is right, this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Yes you have been misrepresenting what i have been saying in this argument.

Infact calling homosexuality deviant is a correct statement. To this you never replied...You never provdided examples of how i refered to homosexuality as deviant (ie a sickness). You stated above my argument was comprised of all "those things". What things in particular? Two of which were "condition" and "sickness". If you want to be literal homosexuality is a condition of the mind. I don't see how you can avoid that reasoning. However i doubt that was what you were implying.

 

[Natoma]

This is basically become a farce. This is a step by step recount of this whole brouhaha.

1) You stated that homosexuality was a deviant mutation if I believed that it is genetically predisposed.

Proof:

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

2) I stated that you called homosexuality a deviant mutation.

3) You stated that you never said such a thing.

Proof:

No, i haven't and yes you are misrepresented my argument. What i stated to you was, implying that there was a genetic cause would also imply mutation. When did i ever stated i believe homosexuality is a deviant mutation?

4) I provided the exact quote where you did.

Proof:

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

5) You continue to refute that and say that you've never called homosexuality a deviant mutation. Then you make this qualifier about "wicked mutation" or "(evil, destructive)".

You have stated you can not misrepresent what i have written however you took me to imply homosexuality is a wicked mutation.

After asking yu to point out where i have called homosexuality deviant (ie Wicked) you never again posted in the thread.

BTW - may I ask for an apology for your assertions i was stating homosexuality was deviant (ie wicked) knowing that of course has never been my position. I don't know if you ever apologized for misrepresenting me and i would liek to lay this matter to rest.

All those qualifiers regarding deviant = wicked or evil or destructive are your legion, not mine. I've already shown over and over and over where you stated that homosexuality is a deviant mutation. And if you don't believe me, here it is again, your own words.

Unless of course you believe were predispositioned to be homosexual then you might as well refer to yourself as a deviant mutation...

Nothing left to do but chuckle and get back to work.