Article: Japan - Games That Could Save the 360

[scooby_dooby]

I'd like to see what percentage of total game sales are made up by these main franchises. I wouldn't be surprised if the big franchises make up a small fraction of total games sold.

 

[liverkick]

GT at one point was a tentpole series but really isnt any longer because its competition within the genre could be said to be equal or greater (Forza)...

GT4 has moved over 6 million worldwide, half of that I think in Europe alone. Gran Turismo as a brand has sold something like 40+ million units since its inception (dont have the exact numbers). I dont know what the whole "Tentpole" thing is about, but I dont think GT's status as a major franchise is in much danger of dropping off anytime soon. I like Forza a lot but there really isnt much competition at all.

 

[RollingBalls]

Japan has lost its influence on the market in the last generation. At least in terms of the Western markets are concerned then Japanese companies no longer have much sway.

Our games are too safe and sterile. Unless the US has some sort of renascence in the near future, I doubt Japan will lose its foothold.

 

[pipo]

nvm

 

[zed]

if you took sales numbers for just last gen (PS2, Xbox and game cube) it would be a VERY different story

well if only counting ps2/xbox/gamecube then the largest franchise is gta (~39million on ps2 alone) and number 2 is mario + 3rd is grand tourismo ( both over 20million)

true halo is the biggest franchise for the xbox but for the last generation of consoles (the same as madden it doesnt make the top3)
them are the facts

 

[NavNucST3]

vgcharts worldwide million selling software:

If one goes by prev. gen then:

GT3 = 14.36
GTA: VC = 13.63
GTA: SA = 13.44
GTA3 = 11.42
FFX = 7.93
HALO 2 = 7.75
HALO = 6.61
GT4 = 6.58
Need for Speed: Underground = 6.47
Medal Of Honour Frontline = 6.22
Need for Speed: Underground 2 = 6.12
Smash Bros Melee = 6.05 (listed as the highest selling GC game)
Mario Kart: Double Dash = 6.01
Metal Gear Solid 2 = 5.59
Super Mario Sunshine = 5.56

Going to the link you can see that Madden definitely sells, but one would need to compile all three consoles numbers, and I just don't feel like it. Only reason I did this is because I found it hard to believe that Mario would have been the second largest franchise for living room consoles last gen.

EDIT: Figures are single platform only. (eg. GTAxxx represents only the PS2 numbers) Someone else can add the platforms together if they want.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

EDIT: Figures are single platform only. (eg. GTAxxx represents only the PS2 numbers) Someone else can add the platforms together if they want.

Could do, but I don't see what argument there is here that that information would help with! What's the debate? I believe the point is whether Japanese titles are important, and the top selling list doesn't help with that idea.

 

[NavNucST3]

Could do, but I don't see what argument there is here that that information would help with! What's the debate? I believe the point is whether Japanese titles are important, and the top selling list doesn't help with that idea.

Shifty, this was more of a clarification of what the platforms (pl) top selling games are, it should be noted that the website does infact allow one to search by Japan, US, (sorry Shifty) Others. My OP and feeling is that Japan is becoming a handheld country, and is becoming irrelevant in the grand scheme of making profits (although FFX goes against that very point). Doing a Japan hi/low nets us DQ8 as the number one from last gen at 4.68 with 3.61 being the Japan share. The next title is FFX with 7.93 worldwide and 3.02 in Japan.

So the answer is what everyone has already said: DQ or FF for that market

 

[Shifty Geezer]

(First thing, great link, vgcharts.org! All figure references here are from that site)

And that's demonstrated by any sort of factual evidence, where?

None really, same as the counter point isn't proven by any factual evidence that you can present. POV don't always have to be based on statistical facts if the area is subjective - sometimes all you have to work with is reason. Facts should only be the basis of an argument when they are available.

What you are trying to say is that the western markets love to buy their GTA, Madden, Halo, etc.. (as demonstrated by the sales figures), but they will choose the more expensive PS3 over the 360 because they might want the option to purchase a Japanese RPG that none of their friends will have heard of and will only sell 100,000 copies?

Of 440 million games sold to PS2 owners in the US, about 22 million of those have bought into the GT franchise. Console wise, of 40 million PS2 owners, the top selling GTA title was sold to 8 milion of them. That's 20% of PS2 owners in the Us care anything about GTA (unless every copy of every GTA game was sold to a new player, and no-one ever bought sequels)

Similarly the best selling Madden sold 4 million copies, or to 10% of US's PS2 owners. Madden sold something like 16.5 million copies out of 440 million games sold.

The reality is, therse big sellers only represent a small proportion of gamers. Most gamers don't care for GTA or Madden. Their interests are spread around other titles. Some people like Madden and Halo. Some like Madden and Dance Dance Revolution. Some like Halo and Fable. Some like Racers and nothing but. Some like Platformers with a bit of Star Wars Battlefronts. But people are different, their choice of games is different, and the only way to attract them is broad selection. The best selling software titles list does not show the console choosing habits of the masses and what games they look for. The game that sold me on a PS2 doesn't even feature in those best sellers lists!

Because what 'makes sense' to me is that developers, anywhere, will develop for the platform they believe will move the most units.
If there's enough of a market for their 'eastern' genres in western markets they will develop for consoles that will provide that market.

I was talking about a wide variety of games is needed to make a platform, which Japanese development benefits. Whether Japanese developers choose to develop for a platform or not is another matter entirely.

The crux of the issue, from the OP, is that J-Devs are neccessary to broaden the software library, and it's the software library that sales your system. If all you have are the best sellers, GTA and Madden, you're limiting your audience. In this case, if the PS2 in the US only had GTA and Madden, and players of those games were mutually exclusive, it would have sold 13 million versus it's current 40 million. Adding Gran Turismo increases that 7 million. Adding Kingdom Hearts gets another 3 million. Only if exclusive, which of course they're not. Some poeple will own more than one of those titles. To sell 40 million, you need games to appeal to the wide range of tastes of people. No handful of titles is going to be enough to appeal to everyone - not even close. That's why J-devs are needed. They bring in variety, even with 'Western' genres, and create different games that add to the system's library and broader appeal.

It's common sense as I pointed out early with an restaurant analogy. You don't need stats and figures and 'facts' to see that given a limited choice or a broad choice that encompasses the limited choice, people will choose the latter. But if you can't see common sense reasoning, a look at the figures shows you most people don't care for the best-sellers. Now if people are willing to spend $200 more to get that choice, that again is another debate.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Shifty, this was more of a clarification of what the platforms (pl) top selling games are, it should be noted that the website does infact allow one to search by Japan, US, (sorry Shifty) Others.

One thing it's lacking unfortunately is regional top titles. Madden gets a slot in the worldwide best sellers despite being irrelevant in the rest of the world, so it gets listed a 0 million in Other's top sellers, whereas other games that obviously sold more aren't listed. Likewise you have Japan pushing some games up the ladder that wouldn't be noticed anywhere else. Ideally there'd be three other tables for the top sellers for a territory, other than just Worldwide topsellers sorted by territory.

 

[TheChefO]

You don't need stats and figures and 'facts' to see that given a limited choice or a broad choice that encompasses the limited choice, people will choose the latter. But if you can't see common sense reasoning, a look at the figures shows you most people don't care for the best-sellers. Now if people are willing to spend $200 more to get that choice, that again is another debate.

Agreed! Wii60 is the best way to go to get the best variety of software and to me it is worth the extra $200, but two systems is a hard sell to most people

 

[mckmas8808]

Agreed! Wii60 is the best way to go to get the best variety of software and to me it is worth the extra $200, but two systems is a hard sell to most people

That's if you like using a wand for most games.

 

[TheChefO]

That's if you like using a wand for most games.

Not most - I think for most, I'd stick to 360 but that's me ... I'm sure there are others with differing opinions.

 

[TheChefO]

They may have sold more in the west, but they still sold very signifigant portions inside JPN which can't be ignored.

If japanese install base is irrelevant, why hasn't S-E announced a new FF game for 360? Wada had said previously they would decide by E3 which platforms FF would be on, 360 did horrible in japan, despite being the fastest selling console ever worldwide, and when E3 came around it was announced as a PS exclusive.

Obviously the success of the console in Japan influences the decisions of japanese developers when supporting systems, the evidence is staring you right in the face. Some developers like Capcom and From are jumping on board embracing the western markets, while others like S-E and Namco are still extremely hesitant to invest any major resources.

Bellfield explains, "There is a big focus at Capcom on the importance of the Western markets. While Japan diverges into the mobile location based market rather than the 'at-home' market the console market in the West is set to grow very quickly. If Japanese companies want to take advantage of this growth they need to expand and deepen their management expertise in the West."

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3398&Itemid=32


Interesting perspective. I wonder how long it will be before other major j-devs fall in line? Seems 360 is picking up j-dev support by the week. :smile:

 

[Almasy]

Agreed! Wii60 is the best way to go to get the best variety of software and to me it is worth the extra $200, but two systems is a hard sell to most people

No, not really. With a wii60 (God, I hate that name), you still won´t have the best of the japanese games. Wii will offer quirky, wand based games, while 360 offers almost 100% western titles.

With PS3 you´ll get the main as well as the quirky japanese titles, and you´ll also have access to almost all of 360´s western support...so it´s not the same, not really close.

I´m also interested in knowing from who this new support you speak of is coming from. You may do well to remember Xbox had better japanese support than 360, and that support dwindled until it became nill. I expect this to repeat itself, faster than on the original Xbox, given 360´s even lower sales figures in Japan.

 

[TheChefO]

No, not really. With a wii60 (God, I hate that name), you still won´t have the best of the japanese games. Wii will offer quirky, wand based games, while 360 offers almost 100% western titles.

With PS3 you´ll get the main as well as the quirky japanese titles, and you´ll also have access to almost all of 360´s western support...so it´s not the same, not really close.

I´m also interested in knowing from who this new support you speak of is coming from. You may do well to remember Xbox had better japanese support than 360, and that support dwindled until it became nill. I expect this to repeat itself, faster than on the original Xbox, given 360´s even lower sales figures in Japan.

Why does everyone presume the dev support for all platforms will be the same as it was last gen? The userbase is likely to be a LOT closer this gen and I expect the dev support will fall in line as well. Sure some games wont go multiplat, but I expect 99% of the third party stuff to go multi, dependant on region. ie: if 360 is still selling horrible in Japan, wii and ps3 will share most titles, in US games will mostly be split with 360/ps3, in EU...?

As far as xbox1 j-dev support, they mostly had help from Sega early. Other than them - not much. And that's fine because looking at their early sales worldwide, ps2 was already the victor before xbox launched. Contrast this with not only the j-dev companies, but also the content coming to 360 and to me it's night and day difference. How many jrpgs were on xbox1? How many Final Fantasy games? How many exclusive Capcom games?

Point is j-dev support is looking strong for 360 and while it may never amount to mass sales in japan, it will help strengthen their library worldwide. That is of course if j-devs care for sales and profit etc.

 

[scooby_dooby]

No, not really. With a wii60 (God, I hate that name), you still won´t have the best of the japanese games. Wii will offer quirky, wand based games, while 360 offers almost 100% western titles.

With PS3 you´ll get the main as well as the quirky japanese titles, and you´ll also have access to almost all of 360´s western support...so it´s not the same, not really close.

If you like western RPG's then you're missing out on some seriously good titles if you don't have a 360, Mas Effect trilogy, Fable, Oblivion and many more I'm sure.

 

[Almasy]

If you like western RPG's then you're missing out on some seriously good titles if you don't have a 360, Mas Effect trilogy, Fable, Oblivion and many more I'm sure.

Isn´t Oblivion getting a PS3 version??

Anyway, Xbox didn´t have those PC exclusives because PC devs somehow loved MS and wanted to have hot steamy sex with Allard and Gates. They were there because they were easy to port, at least when compared to PS2. This time around, it´s Xbox the one I suspect will lose most of its exclusive western support, due to that barrier significantly reduced.

Why does everyone presume the dev support for all platforms will be the same as it was last gen? The userbase is likely to be a LOT closer this gen and I expect the dev support will fall in line as well. Sure some games wont go multiplat, but I expect 99% of the third party stuff to go multi, dependant on region. ie: if 360 is still selling horrible in Japan, wii and ps3 will share most titles, in US games will mostly be split with 360/ps3, in EU...?

Not a valid assumption, IMO. Wii and PS3 games will most likely differ greatly in design and tech requirements, so it is going to be hugely difficult to design a multiplattform game for both. It´ll most likely be one or the other.

Western publishers are digital whores, they will make a version on every system on the earth available to make some cash, so I agree with you on that. Japanese devs are the ones in discussion here though.

As far as xbox1 j-dev support, they mostly had help from Sega early. Other than them - not much. And that's fine because looking at their early sales worldwide, ps2 was already the victor before xbox launched. Contrast this with not only the j-dev companies, but also the content coming to 360 and to me it's night and day difference. How many jrpgs were on xbox1? How many Final Fantasy games? How many exclusive Capcom games?

Sega was on with several titles, Capcom was as well, even with a port of Onimusha and a brand new Dino Crisis. Konami was there too, and in a big fashion, you couldn´t get anything bigger than MGS2 from them, and there it was. I´d call initial japanese support on Xbox to be superior to 360´s.

360 has what?? A pretty bad port of FFXI?? XIII, that´s the one to pay attention and it went to PS3, exclusively. Trusty Bell?? No offense, but that doesn´t exactly look like it holds much promise. N3?? A game that turned out to be very mediocre?? Aside from RE5, I honestly can´t think of anything that isn´t merely a promise of games that might turn out to be good: The Tri Ace RPG, Blue Dragon and the one with Sakaguchi.

That´s what 360 has, promises of games that might turn out to be good. Xbox had very solid, and even blockbuster, titles secured. You call that an improvement in support??

Look at PS3 now. Without even announcing most of it´s japanese support, it´s already a league ahead in support. MGS4, RE5, DMC4, FFXIII and versusXIII, Tekken, VF, etc. A lineup of AAA titles that you won´t get on Xbox 360, aside from a huge bunch of good, not as publicized games that come from smaller teams and publishers in Japan, many of them exclusive due to no other viable system in Japan, that is, unless they are willing to map commands to the wiimote in a wierd way, while dropping many graphical features.

I honestly doubt things will change significantly in terms of support. 360 will always be the western console, and the PS3 will remain the one with the more rounded up lineup. Unless the 360 is a tremendous success in NA and EU, and PS3 struggles, I don´t see a change, not even to a multiplattform strategy for Japan developers.

Point is j-dev support is looking strong for 360 and while it may never amount to mass sales in japan, it will help strengthen their library worldwide. That is of course if j-devs care for sales and profit etc.

I disagree, but I suppose that meager support looks like strong support when compared to cero support.

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

They may have sold more in the west, but they still sold very signifigant portions inside JPN which can't be ignored.

If japanese install base is irrelevant, why hasn't S-E announced a new FF game for 360? Wada had said previously they would decide by E3 which platforms FF would be on, 360 did horrible in japan, despite being the fastest selling console ever worldwide, and when E3 came around it was announced as a PS exclusive.

Obviously the success of the console in Japan influences the decisions of japanese developers when supporting systems, the evidence is staring you right in the face. Some developers like Capcom and From are jumping on board embracing the western markets, while others like S-E and Namco are still extremely hesitant to invest any major resources.

?

You're joking, right?

You do realize that, as it stands currently, Xbox360 is still behind Xbox at this point, and there are many systems which sold faster than Xbox through this point in its life...

I'll also just ask: What makes you think, for example, S-E doesn't "embrace" western markets.

Playstation Brand is many many times larger than Xbox brand in "western" markets. At least as things stand today. Yes, the U.S. (not Europe, which is rabidly pro-sony, so "half" of the western market) is Xbox's strongest region, but it is also PS3's, in terms of units in circulation.

 

[TheChefO]

Not a valid assumption, IMO. Wii and PS3 games will most likely differ greatly in design and tech requirements, so it is going to be hugely difficult to design a multiplattform game for both. It´ll most likely be one or the other.

re4 gc - tech achievement - expect 80% visual parity at edtv res ps3-Wii. Also consider most j-dev games do not push tech.

Western publishers are digital whores, they will make a version on every system on the earth available to make some cash, so I agree with you on that. Japanese devs are the ones in discussion here though.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3398&Itemid=32
also worth noting:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...403&Ite mid=2
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/716/716047p1.html
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31661

Sega was on with several titles, Capcom was as well, even with a port of Onimusha and a brand new Dino Crisis. Konami was there too, and in a big fashion, you couldn´t get anything bigger than MGS2 from them, and there it was. I´d call initial japanese support on Xbox to be superior to 360´s.

Late ports

360 has what??

Lost Planet ....exclusive - oh and simultaneous re5 This is so far what has been announced. btw there are also a growing base of smaller jdev games which look to add a good deal of variety

That´s what 360 has, promises of games that might turn out to be good. Xbox had very solid, and even blockbuster, titles secured. You call that an improvement in support??

Late ports

Look at PS3 now. Without even announcing most of it´s japanese support, it´s already a league ahead in support. MGS4, RE5, DMC4, FFXIII and versusXIII, Tekken, VF, etc. A lineup of AAA titles that you won´t get on Xbox 360, aside from a huge bunch of good, not as publicized games that come from smaller teams and publishers in Japan, many of them exclusive due to no other viable system in Japan, that is, unless they are willing to map commands to the wiimote in a wierd way, while dropping many graphical features.

most j-dev games are not tech wonders and focus more on concepts and innovation which favors Wii. AA titles would take a hit graphic wise - that's it.

I honestly doubt things will change significantly in terms of support. 360 will always be the western console, and the PS3 will remain the one with the more rounded up lineup. Unless the 360 is a tremendous success in NA and EU, and PS3 struggles, I don´t see a change, not even to a multiplattform strategy for Japan developers.

Capcom, SE, so far

Oh and btw - The "western" market is roughly 50% of the pie

I disagree, but I suppose that meager support looks like strong support when compared to cero support.

No need to be bitter but I'm glad you recognize their improved j-dev support.