Digital ecosystems Smart TVs Game consoles, cameras the technology and interaction

[jeff_rigby]

New 2011 Samsung TV, everything but the kitchen sink

Ecosystem is a big selling point, control of your TV from iOS and Android handhelds.

Comcast and Time Warner VOD now supported in Samsung web connected CE. Start a movie on your TV and finish it on your Android or iOS handheld. Control your TV with your handheld. Home control of smart appliances is also coming.

Apple, Toshiba, Sony, Samsung, LG and MS are all jumping on this Ecosystem bandwagon with various schemes. Driving/enabling this are standards such as DLNA, Google TV, Ultraviolet, OpenGL, HTML5, CE-HTML and Adobe Flash products like Air 2.5. The HTML5 in consoles thread covers much of this.

IT appears as if CE equipment will now lead game consoles in this ecosystem lineup. With MS and Silverlight 5 as well as Sony's PS Suite and Webkit applications, this ecosystem will come to game consoles as well as the NGP. And the reverse is also true, Games will be coming from Game consoles to CE equipment.

Samsung has announced that it has passed the 2m downloads milestone for its Smart TV App Store, proving that you don’t need to be Apple or have Google TV onboard to be successful in home entertainment software. The news comes 53 days after Samsung confirmed it had seen 1m downloads, a figure that took 268 days to reach.

LG and Sony using the Broadcom SOC are doing similar things with their TVs. LG is even using the same gyroscopes the Sony "Move" uses to simply their remote and make it easier to use.

All have HTML5 browsers and the Broadcom SOC appears to have enough power for games and Apps. Google TV apparently started this revolution and now most (high end now) TVs are equal to or more powerful than last years Google TV platforms with more features.

Toshiba ecosystem Strategy http://www.cln-online.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=724:toshibastrategy&catid=47:features&Itemid=101

http://www.rohitbhargava.com/2011/01/what-samsung-and-others-learned-from-apple-that-will-change-our-future.html

Apple started the Ecosystem revolution

In 2001 Apple launched what would be one of the most iconic products of the 21st century's first decade. The iPod changed music and consumer electronics - but it also led to one of the most counterintuitive marketing strategies of the modern age as well. As the iPod grew in popularity, Apple began to sell $1000 computers as accessories for a $200 gadget. The ecosystem of the iTunes store and the ability to manage your music easily and seamlessly with your iPod started a revolution that led millions to consider (or reconsider) getting a Mac as their primary home computer. By locking customers into their ecosystem (and shutting other brands out) - Apple grew using a basic strategy of cross-selling to get customers to buy multiple devices and making sure that they all worked easily together.

The Ecosystems Will Determine the Gadgets We Buy

Nearly every manufacturer of large scale consumer products is investing in the value of selling an ecosystem instead of a single product. LG, Sony and SHARP all have launched their own App stores for mobile devices and (now) smart connected televisions as well. The early leader, Sony's Qriocity, features a large content archive and integrates both music and video together. LG's smart home appliances can be accessed through multiple other devices.

Samsung's latest wirelessly enabled digital camera, called the Samsung SH100 can also be synchronized with the Samsung Galaxy smartphone and then operated remotely by the phone as a remote control. The vision for more and more of these products is to make them work together at the touch of a button and finally demonstrate a real value for consumers to motivate them to choose to stay with a single brand for multiple purchases.

This is the locked in world we are headed for - where brand name will do more than just reinforce consumer confidence in the product. The brand will be the ecosystem that consumers buy into, just as they have for years with Apple. Most likely it will work for consumer electronics, and we are already seeing other industry segments start to follow. Financial services organizations want to lock you into banking, credit cards and mortgages. GE wants your home lighting and security to work with your home appliances.

In this new future, the brand you choose will determine the products you consider buying. The barrier to switch will be the inconvenience of having a device that no longer fits the ecosystem of your life.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Let the damn TV remain a TV. I really don't have the patience for all this, and so I can't imagine what people like my parents would get from this (they do OK with computers and the DVD player, but never managed to learn to operate the VHS or store channels on the TV properly)

 

[AlphaWolf]

Let the damn TV remain a TV.

Agree. It's a cute idea that never winds up being the best option in practice. eg: My brothers TV has netflix built in, and its terrible so he uses his xbox.

 

[TheChefO]

Let the damn TV remain a TV. I really don't have the patience for all this, and so I can't imagine what people like my parents would get from this (they do OK with computers and the DVD player, but never managed to learn to operate the VHS or store channels on the TV properly)

This.

I like the concept of a web connected livingroom, but each tv manufacturer is going to try and force their own standard and their own ecosystem which is really just too much.

The TV is best left as an output device. Getting cable operators on-board to have smarter cable boxes is a good idea, but beyond that this whole concept is becoming a convoluted mess.

I anticipate that this little battleground for the livingroom will eventually be tamed by the big three (MS, Apple, Google) and the tv manufacturers will eventually buy into an open standard that supports all three and lets the consumer decide.


As Laa-yosh said, most people don't even know how to program the time in their vcr's, yet now they are expected to jump head first into this mess?

Don't think so.

It will have to be standardized and simple.

Edge to Apple in that regard, yet MS shouldn't be discounted with their growing Xbox popularity. Especially with the casual crowd.

I am concerned that MS is missing the boat on much of this potential though as it seems they are not investing the R&D to make their livingroom proposition as strong as it should be. Especially considering their size and sales momentum of Kinect.

 

[jeff_rigby]

This.

I like the concept of a web connected livingroom, but each tv manufacturer is going to try and force their own standard and their own ecosystem which is really just too much.

The TV is best left as an output device. Getting cable operators on-board to have smarter cable boxes is a good idea, but beyond that this whole concept is becoming a convoluted mess.

I anticipate that this little battleground for the livingroom will eventually be tamed by the big three (MS, Apple, Google) and the tv manufacturers will eventually buy into an open standard that supports all three and lets the consumer decide.


As Laa-yosh said, most people don't even know how to program the time in their vcr's, yet now they are expected to jump head first into this mess?

Don't think so.

It will have to be standardized and simple.

Edge to Apple in that regard, yet MS shouldn't be discounted with their growing Xbox popularity. Especially with the casual crowd.

I am concerned that MS is missing the boat on much of this potential though as it seems they are not investing the R&D to make their livingroom proposition as strong as it should be. Especially considering their size and sales momentum of Kinect.

All valid points. Early TVs with advanced WEB features were horribly slow and clumsy because they didn't have the CPU power to make an easy to use interface. Google TV in 2010 TVs did have the power but I believe the interface, while the first of it's kind to promote WEB TV, was not designed with "Grandparents" and "parents" in mind (ease of use and intuitive).

With 2011 TVs using the Broadcom SOC, performance has been addressed and now the interface is the factor in Sales with all trying for ease of use. The Broadcom SOC supports a "windows" OS needed for HTML5 Webkit browsers which can use an Air mouse for ease of use. The current LG uses an Air Mouse and complies with a CE-HTML standard for both readability and ease of use.

There are standards being developed, one called HbbTV is supported by Opera in their CE browser being used by Sony in their new Web connected TV and Blu-ray.

2011 with Broadcom SOC, HTML5 browsers, Ultraviolet model (Allowing multiple platforms to display the same owned media) and the ecosystem push will affect the entire CE industry including game consoles.

In the short term a Game console or blu-ray player can provide for a cheaper (than TV) living room connection to the WEB media ecosystem. This, I believe, is what drove the PS3 expensive "lossy" design. The PS3 had the necessary hardware but there were no standards for this ecosystem thus the PS3 OS was not finished. Now in 2011 it appears the standards are just about in place and the PS3 OS will be finished and will reflect the best of the 2011 high end TV and Blu-ray player interfaces. In 2012 with 28nm die, a passive cooled PS3 at $199 is probably possible. The combination above could be a winner for Sony.

The Xbox is being denied access to many IPTV channels because they charge for internet access. Sony which has free internet access (by design?) has no limitations and will probably become the accepted IPTV standard display platform for the EU.

 

[patsu]

Let the damn TV remain a TV. I really don't have the patience for all this, and so I can't imagine what people like my parents would get from this (they do OK with computers and the DVD player, but never managed to learn to operate the VHS or store channels on the TV properly)

These Internet TVs should be for the young people. These youngsters may be able to save some money… until they can afford more gadgets to improve the experience.

Phones, tablets, settop boxes and PCs will also drop in price, but TV is just another option.

 

[tuna]

Let the damn TV remain a TV.

Let the damm phone remain a phone!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah, I'd love to have a phone with Apple's interface that's just a phone, and hasn't got more computing power and better 3D graphics than my previous PC.

 

[tuna]

Yeah, I'd love to have a phone with Apple's interface that's just a phone, and hasn't got more computing power and better 3D graphics than my previous PC.

Why would you want apple's interface on a phone that just has a phone function?

 

[zed]

Why would you want apple's interface on a phone that just has a phone function?

Hes just being stubborn, the
Let the damm phone remain a phone! comment destroyed his argument

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Because I don't like the tiny stupid buttons and the annoying way I can scroll with them in name lists?
Sure, there's some cool stuff on the iPhone too, most of the augmented reality stuff looks pretty good, but the touch screen controls are what I really like there. Having yet another device with significant maintenance time (updates, installs whatever) is not something I need, on the other hand.

 

[specwarGP2]

Agree. It's a cute idea that never winds up being the best option in practice. eg: My brothers TV has netflix built in, and its terrible so he uses his xbox.

But doesn't it make sense that of all the devices netflix could be integrated into, it should be the TV? Just because netflix sucks on your brother's TV, that doesnt mean its a bad idea. Its just an idea that technology hasnt caught up to just yet.

Its like pad devices. They sucked before mostly because the technology wasnt there. Now they appear to be quite useable

 

[AlphaWolf]

But doesn't it make sense that of all the devices netflix could be integrated into, it should be the TV? Just because netflix sucks on your brother's TV, that doesnt mean its a bad idea. Its just an idea that technology hasnt caught up to just yet.

Its like pad devices. They sucked before mostly because the technology wasnt there. Now they appear to be quite useable

When TV manufactures get close to developing a UI that doesn't suck ass let me know. I figure we're still about 20 years away from that judging from the current models.

The other thing is that displays are a durable device that costs a lot of money, I expect a television to last 10+ years, especially when I'm paying several thousand dollars. They can't keep up unless they expect you to upgrade your TV every 2 years or unless they include something upgradeable through software.

 

[jeff_rigby]

When TV manufactures get close to developing a UI that doesn't suck ass let me know. I figure we're still about 20 years away from that judging from the current models.

The other thing is that displays are a durable device that costs a lot of money, I expect a television to last 10+ years, especially when I'm paying several thousand dollars. They can't keep up unless they expect you to upgrade your TV every 2 years or unless they include something upgradeable through software.

Thus the PS3 design and projected use by Sony in 2006 as an upgradeable platform for the coming WEB ecosystem (media and information),

The current high end 2011 Broadcom SOC supports multiple downloadable apps and different Platforms. The same SOC supports an Opera browser and apps in Sony TVs and Webkit in LG. I believe the same is used in Samsung TVs. True expensive and few third party options.

 

[jeff_rigby]

The digital ecosystem also includes interconnectivity and standards.

HDBaseT HDMI over Cat5 network

http://www.pcworld.com/article/216331/hdbaset_shows_off_multimedia_megacable.html

HDBaseT runs uncompressed video (including 3D), audio, networking, 100 watts of power and a control signal over a single Cat5e Ethernet cable through distances of 100 meters. The spec was finalized in July 2010, and the HDBaseT Alliance has previously demonstrated a single video source running to a single television.

In a demo at CES 2011, the Alliance was feeding a TV from multiple sources, including a Playstation 3, Blu-ray player and PC, through a single cable from a nearby converter box.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Google TV on PS3 and other platforms via PS Suite message # 93

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59421&page=4

Quote:
If the use of the "Sony Internet TV Powered by Google TV (Google TV)" spreads and its sales volume increases, we might provide the PSS to its users, too. Also, we might provide the PSS as a killer application to spread the use of the Google TV.

Again, we are not going to ignore other platforms than Android. But we will put importance on sales volume and start with Android.

Some translation errors here I think. " we might provide the PSS as a killer application to spread the use of the Google TV." I think should be: we might USE PSS to provide a Google TV killer application to multiple platforms.

That Google TV as a killer application to "spread the use of Google TV to other platforms" was mentioned tells me this:

It is not Sony's job to spread the use of Google TV to other platforms, they are a business to make money, how does spreading the use of Google TV make Sony money? What does this SLIP tell us:

a) Google and Sony are in partnership
b) There are plans for a Google TV applications via PS Suite to multiple platforms

This I believe is no longer speculation. ( "a" Depends on translation error or not ("Spread"), "b" I think is a given)

We also have Kaz stating that Sony will port to non portables as in Google TV platforms. Again, Google TV platforms do not have a current channel for games and is an open market. So what other platforms don't have a channel for games yet....TVs. Many 2011 TVs with Broadcom SOC can support games. And a Google TV application could also be ported to those platforms.

A Google TV application does not have to run under Android. It will require a webkit browser and a suite of Google TV javascript widgets or applications rather than Android widgets and applications. Very doable and portable via PS Suite to multiple platforms. It can also use webkit and "C" rather than javascript. I guess the choice there would be to protect IP.

So yes, after the Webkit port to the PS3.....very possible and might show up on the PS3, NGP and Sony cell phone at the same time (Android platform too). There might be tie-ins to Cable TV companies and accessories like Play TV. Cable companies might allow access to Cable TV DVR boxes via WiFi or a home network. Play TV can be a tuner input and DVR for Google TV.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Tablets and phones being used as remote controls for TVs, seen in Comcast commercials, will also be implemented to control home theater and home appliances.

http://www.fancast.com/mytv/dvr

Schedule your DVR recordings from anywhere - it's easy.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Personally I don't really care about systems like these, got a htpc for that, but I can see this working in the future. Sure, your grandparents won't be using this. Hell, they probably don't aim this at people above 45. I can see how this is for the younger generation, max 35 years old. Older people probably don't care/can't work with it because they never grew up with computers, internet, social media etc. But younger people do. The systems might not work great right now, but that was the exact same case with smartphones 5 ~ 6 years ago. Nowdays all young people want a smarthphone and the hardware/software is pretty mature for the most part. I can see tv's going the same way. ~5 years of figuring out what does and doesn't work and than somebody will come up with a system that just works.

Also company's need new features to sell tv's and as your modern tv needs to be full of cpu's already anyway this probably is relative cheap to implement on the hardware front and it gives you a whole list of new stuff to put in your commercials.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Personally I don't really care about systems like these, got a htpc for that, but I can see this working in the future. Sure, your grandparents won't be using this. Hell, they probably don't aim this at people above 45. I can see how this is for the younger generation, max 35 years old. Older people probably don't care/can't work with it because they never grew up with computers, internet, social media etc. But younger people do. The systems might not work great right now, but that was the exact same case with smartphones 5 ~ 6 years ago. Nowdays all young people want a smarthphone and the hardware/software is pretty mature for the most part. I can see tv's going the same way. ~5 years of figuring out what does and doesn't work and than somebody will come up with a system that just works.

Also company's need new features to sell tv's and as your modern tv needs to be full of cpu's already anyway this probably is relative cheap to implement on the hardware front and it gives you a whole list of new stuff to put in your commercials.

I think the expensive 2011 TVs are there now. They are also upgradeable....so if further tweaking is needed a new version can be uploaded. Still too expensive so there is a place for the PS3 in the short term...when Sony finally finishes the PS3 OS libraries and ports a Webkit browser.