Apparantly the PSP2 exists.

[NeoTechni]

I meant as long as people stay polite, it's a discussion. When people start yelling/insulting, then it's an argument.

That thread was also how old? You cant have expected people to remember it. Plus it didnt have Sony's official announcement that they werent going download only, since that happened recently.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I meant as long as people stay polite, it's a discussion. When people start yelling/insulting, then it's an argument.

No, a logical argument is propositions leading to a conclusion. It doesn't have to involve raised voices.

That thread was also how old? You cant have expected people to remember it.

Now I have reminded them, and they can go read it to hear everything that's going to be said in this thread, only now it won't be said here.

 

[Npl]

There are valid arguements about flash. Piracy is not one of them. My ds requires additonal hardare to constantly be there to play hacked games. My psp requires nothing that didn't come with the psp .

But once you got that cart it will work with all current and future ds hardware. its replicating the media perfectly and Nintendo cant do a damn about that.

If you have to hack your console (hardware or software), a new hardware revision or a new firmware revision (in the case of PS3-like security) can fight that.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

The piracy issue is totally unrelated to the medium used.

 

[NeoTechni]

i dunno
one flash card maker claims theyve already made a 3ds compatible card
psp2 probably wont get hacked for some time

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Even if that is true, that still doesn't have anything to do with using carts as a medium.

 

[NeoTechni]

Well look at it this way. They just use SD cards as storage in them. From GBA upwards.

UMD has yet to be replicated for piracy

 

[Nesh]

No need to be replicated when you can have the pirated games stored on PC and upload them on the memory stick whenever you want

 

[Toaddio]

No need to be replicated when you can have the pirated games stored on PC and upload them on the memory stick whenever you want

Isn't that a software issue that was somewhat resolved by the PS3? Couldn't Sony's advancements make the PSP2 a little more difficult to hack in this way?

 

[Nesh]

Probably yeah

 

[NeoTechni]

Isn't that a software issue that was somewhat resolved by the PS3?

PS3 got hacked recently

 

[Toaddio]

PS3 got hacked recently

Yeah, but it was fixed via software. Do you have a realistic point or are you just spamming?

 

[eastmen]

But once you got that cart it will work with all current and future ds hardware. its replicating the media perfectly and Nintendo cant do a damn about that.

If you have to hack your console (hardware or software), a new hardware revision or a new firmware revision (in the case of PS3-like security) can fight that.

Actually many carts were rendered useless after certian firmware updates. Some were updated along with the firmware but even then it was months after that the patches came.

It doesn't matter if UMD is replecated. Flash sticks will not only hold multiple umd cards , but it will allow the gams to load faster , save battery life and greatly reduces the size. In the size of a quarter or smaller you can fit multiple umd games each umd being multiple times bigger than a flash card.

With the ps3 , it may have been fixed but its not like the psp didn't have firmware that couldn't be hacked. There is allways a way around and any people are already workin on cfw for the ps3. It also doesn't matter if the ps3 was using flash or optical because the optical format on the ps3 was hacked long ago. There were dumps of ps3 games days after the ps3 came out and bluray movies were hacked months after release . Its the other security systems that are important in keeping the system secure.

 

[NeoTechni]

Yeah, but it was fixed via software.

It can never be fixed truly. Anyone who uses it wont update

Take PSP for example. I still have 5.00 m33-6, and I can run 6.20 games on it. Nothing Sony's done to remove exploits from their OS has affected people who use it.

Except Go owners.

Do you have a realistic point or are you just spamming?

Do you have an actual point or are you just insulting?

 

[ShadowRunner]

It doesn't matter if UMD is replecated. Flash sticks will not only hold multiple umd cards , but it will allow the gams to load faster , save battery life and greatly reduces the size. In the size of a quarter or smaller you can fit multiple umd games each umd being multiple times bigger than a flash card.

With the ps3 , it may have been fixed but its not like the psp didn't have firmware that couldn't be hacked. There is allways a way around and any people are already workin on cfw for the ps3. It also doesn't matter if the ps3 was using flash or optical because the optical format on the ps3 was hacked long ago. There were dumps of ps3 games days after the ps3 came out and bluray movies were hacked months after release . Its the other security systems that are important in keeping the system secure.

The point is that it is one less point of attack if you have a secure media format. Yes the PS3 has now been hacked but had it used an unsecure media format it would have been hacked a whole lot earlier.

Using flash has traditionally meant handing hackers a free pass to getting coppies running on a system. While other systems have been hacked regardless of the media format it atleast makes it less straightforward.

If you are saying that it doesnt matter because itll end up getting hacked anyway then why have any coppy protection at all and leave the whole thing wide open from the start.

You try and keep a system secure from all angles. One of them angles, and probably most vulnerable, being the media format.

Oh and no, the ps3 optical format has not been fully comprimised. There is no way to currently replicate a BR game so that it plays as if it were an original. Reading the format to create dumps is a whole different ball game to actually tricking the mechine into seeing a disk as an original.

The difference with flash and other media is that flash has always been easily replicated without needing any backdoor into host machine. With other media the system must be compromised internally first for it to see the faked media as valid.

 

[eastmen]

Shadow , bluray was not the reason the ps3 wasn't hacked. As I've said dumps of games have been avalible since the first months of the console's release. Bluray movies were also hacked.

It was the os and the systems built into the actual console that stoped it form being hacked for so long. Bluray was the weak link in it. You can't get the ps3 to read dumps of bluray games not because of bluray but because of security built into the ps3 , not built into blurays (which btw i can now have my ps3 run dumps to bluray.)

One way around flash being so easy to replicate. Use a custom form factor and connector type for the flash. If you make it small like a micro sd card then there wont be any copying going on. Look at the ds , the ds cart is as large as an sd card. What made it possible to hack was micro sd. You wouldn't be able to hack it with sd or mini sd.

 

[Npl]

Shadow , bluray was not the reason the ps3 wasn't hacked. As I've said dumps of games have been avalible since the first months of the console's release. Bluray movies were also hacked.

It was the os and the systems built into the actual console that stoped it form being hacked for so long. Bluray was the weak link in it. You can't get the ps3 to read dumps of bluray games not because of bluray but because of security built into the ps3 , not built into blurays (which btw i can now have my ps3 run dumps to bluray.)

if make 1:1 copies of Blurays 1:1 then you dont even need to hack the PS3. The reason you cant do that is because burners wont do 1:1 copies and pressing them yourself is not feasible.

With flash-media and a bit of electronics its way easier to replicate them. using a DS-Cart you will be able to play the media you perfectly be able to replicate, with any current and future DS-Console. Without any modification to the console.

Now try loading Isos in PSP3000 or new PS3s. Even if eg. XBox360 seems to be a losing battle, there still is alot inconvenience involved. With those flash-carts pirates are indistinguishable from regular users.

One way around flash being so easy to replicate. Use a custom form factor and connector type for the flash. If you make it small like a micro sd card then there wont be any copying going on. Look at the ds, the ds cart is as large as an sd card. What made it possible to hack was micro sd. You wouldn't be able to hack it with sd or mini sd.

So then you get a small adapter with a cable leading to the real flash cart.
But anyway you do it, you have to stay away from just using a consumer-solution like micro-sd, which practically drives up you costs since you suddenly cant use the insane volumes that those consumer-solutions have. If you are a bit less concerned about security it will need some (quite alot) technical measures to ensure you cant just "electrically emulate" original carts.

The hack-ability of consoles is also a concern, but unrelated to that.
Flash-carts are an additional issue - you just need to emulate the electrical contacts so to speak and you just need 1 cart for as many games as you want.
replicating optical media is not feasible until you got big plants.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Shadow , bluray was not the reason the ps3 wasn't hacked. As I've said dumps of games have been avalible since the first months of the console's release. Bluray movies were also hacked.

It was the os and the systems built into the actual console that stoped it form being hacked for so long. Bluray was the weak link in it. You can't get the ps3 to read dumps of bluray games not because of bluray but because of security built into the ps3 , not built into blurays (which btw i can now have my ps3 run dumps to bluray.)

One way around flash being so easy to replicate. Use a custom form factor and connector type for the flash. If you make it small like a micro sd card then there wont be any copying going on. Look at the ds , the ds cart is as large as an sd card. What made it possible to hack was micro sd. You wouldn't be able to hack it with sd or mini sd.

No, at a fundamental level the bluray drive and its firmware is able to detect wether the disk is an original pressed disk or not. There is no way to make a replica of an original disk that will be read as if it were genuine, this difference between original and copy (and being able to detect it) is part of the bluray protection scheme. The dumps that have been available have been useless precisely because of this protection.

The distinction between this and what was traditionally the case with flash is that replicas can be made of flash carts that are seen as by the device as genuine.

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the DS can only be hacked by microSD? it was used for convenience, there is no need for a replica to use removeable flash storage at all. If DS used microSD sized cards then the replicas would just be reflashable versions of these, the only thing you get from going to smaller size is less potential storage so instead of storring 100 games on a card you store 10, which would then grow again when reduction in transistor sizes allow more storage for a given amount of space.

Its possible flash could be made more secure with an additional security chip, at increased cost. Im not saying that flash is out of the window, just that at the moment it is too easily replicated and work needs to be done to make it as secure againsts unauthorized replication as other media.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Even if eg. XBox360 seems to be a losing battle, there still is alot inconvenience involved. With those flash-carts pirates are indistinguishable from regular users.

360 is a good example of the destinction of media that can be fully replicated or not.

The optical drive in th 360 must be hacked in order to read burned disks. The system must already be vulnerable from the inside and any defences must have been breached. Only then will the disks be read. The system software needs to be hacked first.

Flash would be a akin to not having to hack the 360, not find any vulnerabilitys or breach any defences, just burn the disk and it would be seen exactly as an original. The system software does not need to be hacked or compimised in any way.

This is the difference we are talking about.

 

[NeoTechni]

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the DS can only be hacked by microSD?

I've seen compact flash cards for DS, I use a full sized SD card. And I have a GBA flash cart that also works.