Another Super Scientific B3D survey! How do you feel about 'diminshing returns' between generations?

[PSman1700]

And PC generations are longer now since we can't actually buy new GPUs anyway?

That’d make the ps generation ’longer’ aswell since its near impossible to get a ps5 either?

 

[BRiT]

So what is the selling point of PS6 et al

More haptics? More VR?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Was it? While we do know the jaguars where quite underpowered, in many ways it was an improvement over the Cell/360 cpu.

Yes, Cell absolutely has the performance edge. The seven 3.2Ghz SPEs on top the 3.2Ghz PowerPC (SPU) could crunch through a crazy amount of operations and data, even allowing for in-order versus of out-of-order differences. In CPU terms, PS4 was a step backwards for PlayStation.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, Cell absolutely has the performance edge. The seven 3.2Ghz SPEs on top the 3.2Ghz PowerPC (SPU) could crunch through a crazy amount of operations and data, even allowing for in-order versus of out-of-order differences. In CPU terms, PS4 was a step backwards for PlayStation.

On paper regards number crunching. In terms of real world workloads, many devs would disagree. Utilisation of those SPEs could be pretty poor.

It's probably very safe to say that if PS5 had a Cell instead of a Jaguar, even with devs writing moderately optimised code, PS5 games wouldn't be as good as they are now. If that's not the case and one Cell can outperform the Jags, at a tiny fraction of the silicon, then Sony blew it and should have put 100 Cells in there!

 

[iroboto]

On paper regards number crunching. In terms of real world workloads, many devs would disagree. Utilisation of those SPEs could be pretty poor.

It's probably very safe to say that if PS5 had a Cell instead of a Jaguar, even with devs writing moderately optimised code, PS5 games wouldn't be as good as they are now. If that's not the case and one Cell can outperform the Jags, at a tiny fraction of the silicon, then Sony blew it and should have put 100 Cells in there!

I've always kind of thought of cell as an AVX machine, as that's essentially what it is. Exception is that each SPE had it's own cache so it didn't run into trashing problems competing with other SPEs. But I think you're not going to see significantly better performance on CELL vs Intel/AMD using AVX. But in non-vectorized computation, Intel/AMD is going to blow by cell.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

On paper regards number crunching. In terms of real world workloads, many devs would disagree. Utilisation of those SPEs could be pretty poor.

Many devs struggles to utilise the SPEs, absolutely. It took some effort. The SPEs weren't designed for general workloads, but if you were able to micro-thread a task that benefited from for super fast linear vector operations, it's the dog's bollocks. In a 3D world, there are a lot of such calculations for motion, collision detection, ray pathing, animation..

I did a lot of Cell programming (not PS3) and wouldn't want to do it again, but there's no denying the potential of this arrangement.

But I think you're not going to see significantly better performance on CELL vs Intel/AMD using AVX. But in non-vectorized computation, Intel/AMD is going to blow by cell.

Cell development ceased almost a decade ago so you're comparing modern chips to 40nm monsters. Had the conventional processor kept pace with modern architectural improvements, it could have remained competitive.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Dude, don't get me started on a Cell debate. The quacks have already barred me from it and I can't top my meds up over Christmas. 100 Cell Broadband Engine isn't real. It was never real. It will not rise again, and those who called it a goddam DSP aren't to be burnt alive like the heretics they are.

I think the main point is the workloads you highlight are being moved to the GPU (General Processor Unit ) which packs more math per square cm than Cell. Really, the CU in the GPU has taken over from the SPU in the CPU.

 

[Clukos]

It’s early to tell for sure but I think the move to really fast SSDs for the current gen consoles improve both the dev and player experience dramatically, beyond just loading times. We’ll just have to wait a little bit to get out of the generational transition period to really see the benefits though.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Absolutely. There will be many game designers who are deeply ingrained to design around problems that no longer exist. It can take a while to come to terms with the lack of technical barriers when you've lived with them for years, if not decades.