Another Super Scientific B3D survey! How do you feel about 'diminshing returns' between generations?

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Shifty Geezer, Dec 10, 2021.

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How did you feel about the generational transititions? PS used as easy numbering!

  1. PS2 > PS3 transformative

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  2. PS2 > PS3 exponential

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  3. PS2 > PS3 linear

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  4. PS3 > PS4 transformative

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  5. PS3 > PS4 exponential

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  6. PS3 > PS4 linear

    14 vote(s)
    42.4%
  7. PS4 > PS5 transformative

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  8. PS4 > PS5 exponential

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  9. PS4 > PS5 linear

    19 vote(s)
    57.6%
  10. I don't believe in generations

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. PSman1700

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    That’d make the ps generation ’longer’ aswell since its near impossible to get a ps5 either?
     
  2. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
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    More haptics? More VR?
     
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  3. DSoup

    DSoup Series Soup
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    Yes, Cell absolutely has the performance edge. The seven 3.2Ghz SPEs on top the 3.2Ghz PowerPC (SPU) could crunch through a crazy amount of operations and data, even allowing for in-order versus of out-of-order differences. In CPU terms, PS4 was a step backwards for PlayStation.
     
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  4. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    On paper regards number crunching. In terms of real world workloads, many devs would disagree. Utilisation of those SPEs could be pretty poor.

    It's probably very safe to say that if PS5 had a Cell instead of a Jaguar, even with devs writing moderately optimised code, PS5 games wouldn't be as good as they are now. If that's not the case and one Cell can outperform the Jags, at a tiny fraction of the silicon, then Sony blew it and should have put 100 Cells in there! :runaway:
     
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  5. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    I've always kind of thought of cell as an AVX machine, as that's essentially what it is. Exception is that each SPE had it's own cache so it didn't run into trashing problems competing with other SPEs. But I think you're not going to see significantly better performance on CELL vs Intel/AMD using AVX. But in non-vectorized computation, Intel/AMD is going to blow by cell.
     
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  6. DSoup

    DSoup Series Soup
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    Many devs struggles to utilise the SPEs, absolutely. It took some effort. The SPEs weren't designed for general workloads, but if you were able to micro-thread a task that benefited from for super fast linear vector operations, it's the dog's bollocks. In a 3D world, there are a lot of such calculations for motion, collision detection, ray pathing, animation..

    I did a lot of Cell programming (not PS3) and wouldn't want to do it again, but there's no denying the potential of this arrangement.

    Cell development ceased almost a decade ago so you're comparing modern chips to 40nm monsters. Had the conventional processor kept pace with modern architectural improvements, it could have remained competitive.
     
    #46 DSoup, Dec 18, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
  7. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    Dude, don't get me started on a Cell debate. The quacks have already barred me from it and I can't top my meds up over Christmas. 100 Cell Broadband Engine isn't real. It was never real. It will not rise again, and those who called it a goddam DSP aren't to be burnt alive like the heretics they are.

    I think the main point is the workloads you highlight are being moved to the GPU (General Processor Unit :D) which packs more math per square cm than Cell. Really, the CU in the GPU has taken over from the SPU in the CPU.
     
    #47 Shifty Geezer, Dec 18, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
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  8. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
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    It’s early to tell for sure but I think the move to really fast SSDs for the current gen consoles improve both the dev and player experience dramatically, beyond just loading times. We’ll just have to wait a little bit to get out of the generational transition period to really see the benefits though.
     
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  9. DSoup

    DSoup Series Soup
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    Absolutely. There will be many game designers who are deeply ingrained to design around problems that no longer exist. It can take a while to come to terms with the lack of technical barriers when you've lived with them for years, if not decades.
     
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